Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ How did the FATHER KNOW what JESUS did NOT!

[branham1965]

i did in the other thread.
you have to know i respect you immensely.i say it openly.and of course Reuben as well.you guys are fair dinkum.which is Australian for
i will try my best to answer any questions or issues.but im certainly no Dr.C.M.Ward.he was awesome.you know i saw him in North Canton Ohio.at the North Canton Assembly on God.that was one incredible Church.i wish i could have got my ex-wife to go...sighs
i have no fuss with verses of the Word.none.im afraid to do that.someone once said lets speak where the Bible speaks...and be silent where the Bible is silent.
i think he was spot on as Haz and macca would say.
anyone know who said that quote???? he lived in the 1800's.

as i said before Reverend im just a layman.im not a Bible scholar like you or Reuben.im laying off of this subject.

if anyone thinks i am going to ever disrespect my Pastor/ Bishop who i love .... in any way shape or form or
deny the POWER of God and the miracles we (mom and i)have received there in his Ministry.that will never happen as long as there is breath in my body.NEVER.

OK Billy,

Not a problem.

But in the future when you don't get interaction from me... just know I am tired of talking to myself when it comes to discussing the Bible with you, when you won't respond to me.

I tried...

[Ray]

Hi Ray, you wrote;

"Haz,
John 14:28 Does NOT state that The FATHER was a greater God than JESUS, as in that statement you made. As if there is more than ONE TRUE GOD, and that is just not the TRUTH.

“In HIM dwells all the fullness of the GODhead bodily.” HIS name is
“Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty GOD.” HE is the Image of GOD, “the brightness of HIS Glory and the express Image of HIS Person.” If your understanding of CHRIST is correct, it will coincide with the true idea of GOD and you will exclaim,This is the true GOD . Like Thomas, you will salute the wounded Savior with the cry, “My LORD and my GOD.”(Do you think Thomas had it wrong and JESUS just allowed it)
Truly, “GOD was manifest in the flesh”—not a part of HIM, but GOD in perfection. In the visible creation we see GOD’s works, but in CHRIST JESUS we have GOD HIMSELF, Emmanuel, “GOD with us.”"

.

I agree with Thomas, "My Lord and My God!" I also believe Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." What is greater about the Father than is with Jesus, I'm only guessing? How do you thinkThe Father may be greater than my Lord and My God Jesus Christ? I personally pray to the Father in Jesus Name, as Jesus commande's us to pray, so what do you think? Only asking out of curiosity, not to correct or discuss your thoughts on this?

Hello Haz,
The part of The GODHEAD that was in Heaven (THE FATHER) remained in all of HIS Glory and Knowledge, While the part of The GODHEAD that BECAME man (JESUS) emptied HIMSELF of the heavenly knowledge of ALL things, as HE had left HIS former Glory to come down to earth to serve as the Redeemer of mankind. Leaving the riches of heaven, HE became poor, leaving the full Deity of THE GLORY of THE GODHEAD he became lower than the angels, leaving HIS royal position in Heaven, HE became a servant.

Philippians 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

BUT... Now HE is in HIS GLORY ALL Powers of Heaven and Earth are under HIM WHO is Above ALL. ALL being Subject to HIM.

[Rocky]

Here's what Dake wrote about the Holy Spirit. In fact this proves the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct beings, each with their own body, soul andspirits.
The Holy Ghost is a separate and distinct spirit being apart from the Father and the Son, Jesus.

Jesus said the Father will send the Holy Spirit to them and He will be their comforter;

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16); Now reading this Scripture; The Holy Spirit is our teacher;

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26), The comforter is the Holy Ghost "WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST" the third person of the Godhead.

The comforter whom the Father sends will testify of Jesus!

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26);

And Jesus said the comforter, the Holy Spirit, will not come untill He, Jesus leaves,

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7).

The Holy Spirit will also not leave the Earth during the tribulation. He will remain here as a hinderer of the powers of darkness untill the antichrist is revealed;

What beside the church, governments and the Holy Spirit is hindering the powers of darkness from having full sway and thus preventing the revelation of the Antichrist? There is nothing, so this hinderance must come from one of these. Governments will be more in evidence during the coming reign of the Antichrist than now, yet it will not hinder the revelation of the Antichrist. The Holy Spirit will not be withdrawn during the tribulation and after the rapture of the church as shown in Joel 2:28-32 ; Acts 2:17-21 ; Zech. 12:10 ; John 14:16 ; Rev. 7:9-17 ; etc. Revelation 7 proves that multitudes will be saved during the tribulation, and and we can say that no man ever has been or ever will be saved except through the "ministry" of the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-8 ; 16:7-11 ; Romans 8:9 ; Ephesians 2:18 ; 1 Corinthians 6:11 ; Titus 3:5 ; etc.

In John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15, the Holy Spirit is spoken of as "Another" Comforter (helper), who could not be sent until Christ had gone back to Heaven and was glorified John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36, but would be sent as a separate person from the Father and Son. The Greek allos, like the English another, means another of the same kind, but different from, not the same one, distinct from another, and one more, as proved every place where such word is used Matt. 2:12 ; 8:9 ; 13:24, 31, 33 ; 21:33 ; 26:7. Ohterwise the passages would not make sense.

Common sense alone demands us to understand that when the word "another" is used it means two or more. It is used of the Father as being "another" from the Son, John 5:32. If the Spirit is "another" from the Son who promised Him, and "another" from the Father who sent Him; and if the Father was "another" from the Son, there must be three distinct persons in the Godhead and all three can be and are called "God." All three persons are distinguished from each other by the word "another" in John 5:3 ; 14:16.

A clear distinction is made between "the name of the Father" and "of the Son" and "of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19. All three have separate and personal names by which they are known, as is clear from this passage and many others.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who prays, and the Father to whom He prays and "another Comforter" for whom He prays, who was given in answer to prayer, and who came from the Father and the Son as our "Helper" John 14:16. A clear distinction is made between Jesus who went away as one distinct person, Acts 1:11, and the Holy Ghost who came to take His place as "another" distinct person, John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who is exalted at the right hand of the Father, and the Father who is on the left hand of the Son, and the Holy Ghost who is sent from the Father and the Son to take the place of Jesus among men, Acts 2:33-26 ; 7:56-59 ; John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15 ; Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Colossians 3:1 ; Hebrews 1:3 ; 8:1 ; 12:2.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who was already given, Luke 1:35 ; John 3:16, and the Holy Ghost who was not yet given before Jesus was glorified, John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36 ; 5:31.

A clear distinction is made between the Holy Ghost that came upon Mary and the child that was born of Mary by the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:18-25 ; Luke 1:32-35.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who can be blasphemed with forgiveness possible and the Holy Ghost who cannot b blasphemed with forgiveness, Matthew 12:31-32 ; Mark 3:29-30 ; Luke 12:10. If the Son and the Holy Ghost were not two distinct persons they could not be blasphemed with different results. A third person, the Father, must have understood in such forgiveness for itis the Father that forgives men as the head of the Godhead, 1 Corinthians 11:3 ; Matthew 6:9-15 ; 18:35 ; Ephesians 4:23.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was bodily in Mary's womb and the Holy Ghost who was not bodily in Mary's womb, and who filled other, Luke 1:15, 39-41, 67-79.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus outside of the womb of Mary and the Holy Ghost who filled and baptized Mary 33 years later at Pentecost, Acts 1:14 ; 2:1-4. The same distinction is made in the case of disciples at Pentecost: The Holy Ghost came and filled and battized them while the Son was at that time "exalted at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, Acts 2:1-4, 33-36. The same distinction is clear in the caseof Steven, Acts 7:56-59 ; Paul, Acts 9:17; and others who were filled and baptized in the Holy Ghost at the time Jesus was in Heaven at the right hand of God, Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Hebrews 1:3.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus whom the Samaritans had recieved and the Holy Ghost whom they had not yet recieved, Acts 8:5-25.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was once powerless to do miracles and the Holy Ghost who annointed Him at thirty years of age to do miricles, John 2:11 ; Acts 10:38 ; Isaiha 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61: 1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21 ; Matthew 3:16-17.

A clear distinction is also made between the Son who was "anointed," and the Father who sent the Spirit to anoint Him, and the Holy Ghost Himself who did the anointing, Matthew 3:16-17 ; Acts 10:38; Isaiah 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61:1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21.

The Holy Ghost is distinguished from Christ by the fact that Jesus said, "He shall not SPEAK OF HIMSELF," but "He shall glorify ME" John 16"13-15.

The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct persons This fact is stated in the Scriptures:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE." 1 John 5:7. And there are THREE that bare witness in the Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these THREE agree in "one" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son., 1 John 5:7-8.

Great Haz, I hope people will study this, but I know they probably wont...

[macca]

Hi Ray, you wrote;

"Haz,
John 14:28 Does NOT state that The FATHER was a greater God than JESUS, as in that statement you made. As if there is more than ONE TRUE GOD, and that is just not the TRUTH.

“In HIM dwells all the fullness of the GODhead bodily.” HIS name is
“Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty GOD.” HE is the Image of GOD, “the brightness of HIS Glory and the express Image of HIS Person.” If your understanding of CHRIST is correct, it will coincide with the true idea of GOD and you will exclaim,This is the true GOD . Like Thomas, you will salute the wounded Savior with the cry, “My LORD and my GOD.”(Do you think Thomas had it wrong and JESUS just allowed it)
Truly, “GOD was manifest in the flesh”—not a part of HIM, but GOD in perfection. In the visible creation we see GOD’s works, but in CHRIST JESUS we have GOD HIMSELF, Emmanuel, “GOD with us.”"

.

I agree with Thomas, "My Lord and My God!" I also believe Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." What is greater about the Father than is with Jesus, I'm only guessing? How do you thinkThe Father may be greater than my Lord and My God Jesus Christ? I personally pray to the Father in Jesus Name, as Jesus commande's us to pray, so what do you think? Only asking out of curiosity, not to correct or discuss your thoughts on this?

Hello Haz,
The part of The GODHEAD that was in Heaven (THE FATHER) remained in all of HIS Glory and Knowledge, While the part of The GODHEAD that BECAME man (JESUS) emptied HIMSELF of the heavenly knowledge of ALL things, as HE had left HIS former Glory to come down to earth to serve as the Redeemer of mankind. Leaving the riches of heaven, HE became poor, leaving the full Deity of THE GLORY of THE GODHEAD he became lower than the angels, leaving HIS royal position in Heaven, HE became a servant.

Philippians 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

BUT... Now HE is in HIS GLORY ALL Powers of Heaven and Earth are under HIM WHO is Above ALL. ALL being Subject to HIM.

not so...



1.Cor. 15:24-28;
Then comes the end, he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; When he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he has put down all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is EXCEPTED, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN shall the Son ALSO himself be SUBJECT unto him, that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


macca

[branham1965]

macca

[Ray]

Hi Ray, you wrote;

"Haz,
John 14:28 Does NOT state that The FATHER was a greater God than JESUS, as in that statement you made. As if there is more than ONE TRUE GOD, and that is just not the TRUTH.

“In HIM dwells all the fullness of the GODhead bodily.” HIS name is
“Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty GOD.” HE is the Image of GOD, “the brightness of HIS Glory and the express Image of HIS Person.” If your understanding of CHRIST is correct, it will coincide with the true idea of GOD and you will exclaim,This is the true GOD . Like Thomas, you will salute the wounded Savior with the cry, “My LORD and my GOD.”(Do you think Thomas had it wrong and JESUS just allowed it)
Truly, “GOD was manifest in the flesh”—not a part of HIM, but GOD in perfection. In the visible creation we see GOD’s works, but in CHRIST JESUS we have GOD HIMSELF, Emmanuel, “GOD with us.”"

.

I agree with Thomas, "My Lord and My God!" I also believe Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." What is greater about the Father than is with Jesus, I'm only guessing? How do you thinkThe Father may be greater than my Lord and My God Jesus Christ? I personally pray to the Father in Jesus Name, as Jesus commande's us to pray, so what do you think? Only asking out of curiosity, not to correct or discuss your thoughts on this?

Hello Haz,
The part of The GODHEAD that was in Heaven (THE FATHER) remained in all of HIS Glory and Knowledge, While the part of The GODHEAD that BECAME man (JESUS) emptied HIMSELF of the heavenly knowledge of ALL things, as HE had left HIS former Glory to come down to earth to serve as the Redeemer of mankind. Leaving the riches of heaven, HE became poor, leaving the full Deity of THE GLORY of THE GODHEAD he became lower than the angels, leaving HIS royal position in Heaven, HE became a servant.

Philippians 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

BUT... Now HE is in HIS GLORY ALL Powers of Heaven and Earth are under HIM WHO is Above ALL. ALL being Subject to HIM.

not so...



1.Cor. 15:24-28;
Then comes the end, he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; When he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he has put down all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is EXCEPTED, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN shall the Son ALSO himself be SUBJECT unto him, that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


macca

macca After JESUS' Resurrection HE said,
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth

Though all Powers and authority have not yet been destroyed, they are ALL SUBJECT to JESUS. In 1 cor 15:24-28 as you above show that After JESUS has delivered The Kingdom to GOD The FATHER then HE (The FATHER) will be ALL in ALL.

[Reuben]

1.Cor. 15:24-28;
Then comes the end, he (1. Jesus)shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father (2. person mentioned here); When he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he has put down all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is EXCEPTED, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN shall the Son (Jesus - one person) ALSO himself be SUBJECT unto him (the Father - another person), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Seems simple that the Trinity exists.

[Reuben]

Would you agree that there are two mentioned in the above Scriptures?

[branham1965]

Would you agree that there are two mentioned in the above Scriptures?

as i said before i believe every single Holy Scripture that is posted here.

every one.

[branham1965]

post edited.

Here's what Dake wrote about the Holy Spirit. In fact this proves the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct beings, each with their own body, soul andspirits.
The Holy Ghost is a separate and distinct spirit being apart from the Father and the Son, Jesus.

Jesus said the Father will send the Holy Spirit to them and He will be their comforter;

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16); Now reading this Scripture; The Holy Spirit is our teacher;

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26), The comforter is the Holy Ghost "WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST" the third person of the Godhead.

The comforter whom the Father sends will testify of Jesus!

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26);

And Jesus said the comforter, the Holy Spirit, will not come untill He, Jesus leaves,

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7).

The Holy Spirit will also not leave the Earth during the tribulation. He will remain here as a hinderer of the powers of darkness untill the antichrist is revealed;

What beside the church, governments and the Holy Spirit is hindering the powers of darkness from having full sway and thus preventing the revelation of the Antichrist? There is nothing, so this hinderance must come from one of these. Governments will be more in evidence during the coming reign of the Antichrist than now, yet it will not hinder the revelation of the Antichrist. The Holy Spirit will not be withdrawn during the tribulation and after the rapture of the church as shown in Joel 2:28-32 ; Acts 2:17-21 ; Zech. 12:10 ; John 14:16 ; Rev. 7:9-17 ; etc. Revelation 7 proves that multitudes will be saved during the tribulation, and and we can say that no man ever has been or ever will be saved except through the "ministry" of the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-8 ; 16:7-11 ; Romans 8:9 ; Ephesians 2:18 ; 1 Corinthians 6:11 ; Titus 3:5 ; etc.

In John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15, the Holy Spirit is spoken of as "Another" Comforter (helper), who could not be sent until Christ had gone back to Heaven and was glorified John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36, but would be sent as a separate person from the Father and Son. The Greek allos, like the English another, means another of the same kind, but different from, not the same one, distinct from another, and one more, as proved every place where such word is used Matt. 2:12 ; 8:9 ; 13:24, 31, 33 ; 21:33 ; 26:7. Ohterwise the passages would not make sense.

Common sense alone demands us to understand that when the word "another" is used it means two or more. It is used of the Father as being "another" from the Son, John 5:32. If the Spirit is "another" from the Son who promised Him, and "another" from the Father who sent Him; and if the Father was "another" from the Son, there must be three distinct persons in the Godhead and all three can be and are called "God." All three persons are distinguished from each other by the word "another" in John 5:3 ; 14:16.

A clear distinction is made between "the name of the Father" and "of the Son" and "of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19. All three have separate and personal names by which they are known, as is clear from this passage and many others.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who prays, and the Father to whom He prays and "another Comforter" for whom He prays, who was given in answer to prayer, and who came from the Father and the Son as our "Helper" John 14:16. A clear distinction is made between Jesus who went away as one distinct person, Acts 1:11, and the Holy Ghost who came to take His place as "another" distinct person, John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who is exalted at the right hand of the Father, and the Father who is on the left hand of the Son, and the Holy Ghost who is sent from the Father and the Son to take the place of Jesus among men, Acts 2:33-26 ; 7:56-59 ; John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15 ; Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Colossians 3:1 ; Hebrews 1:3 ; 8:1 ; 12:2.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who was already given, Luke 1:35 ; John 3:16, and the Holy Ghost who was not yet given before Jesus was glorified, John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36 ; 5:31.

A clear distinction is made between the Holy Ghost that came upon Mary and the child that was born of Mary by the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:18-25 ; Luke 1:32-35.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who can be blasphemed with forgiveness possible and the Holy Ghost who cannot b blasphemed with forgiveness, Matthew 12:31-32 ; Mark 3:29-30 ; Luke 12:10. If the Son and the Holy Ghost were not two distinct persons they could not be blasphemed with different results. A third person, the Father, must have understood in such forgiveness for itis the Father that forgives men as the head of the Godhead, 1 Corinthians 11:3 ; Matthew 6:9-15 ; 18:35 ; Ephesians 4:23.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was bodily in Mary's womb and the Holy Ghost who was not bodily in Mary's womb, and who filled other, Luke 1:15, 39-41, 67-79.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus outside of the womb of Mary and the Holy Ghost who filled and baptized Mary 33 years later at Pentecost, Acts 1:14 ; 2:1-4. The same distinction is made in the case of disciples at Pentecost: The Holy Ghost came and filled and battized them while the Son was at that time "exalted at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, Acts 2:1-4, 33-36. The same distinction is clear in the caseof Steven, Acts 7:56-59 ; Paul, Acts 9:17; and others who were filled and baptized in the Holy Ghost at the time Jesus was in Heaven at the right hand of God, Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Hebrews 1:3.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus whom the Samaritans had recieved and the Holy Ghost whom they had not yet recieved, Acts 8:5-25.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was once powerless to do miracles and the Holy Ghost who annointed Him at thirty years of age to do miricles, John 2:11 ; Acts 10:38 ; Isaiha 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61: 1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21 ; Matthew 3:16-17.

A clear distinction is also made between the Son who was "anointed," and the Father who sent the Spirit to anoint Him, and the Holy Ghost Himself who did the anointing, Matthew 3:16-17 ; Acts 10:38; Isaiah 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61:1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21.

The Holy Ghost is distinguished from Christ by the fact that Jesus said, "He shall not SPEAK OF HIMSELF," but "He shall glorify ME" John 16"13-15.

The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct persons This fact is stated in the Scriptures:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE." 1 John 5:7. And there are THREE that bare witness in the Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these THREE agree in "one" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son., 1 John 5:7-8.

Great Haz, I hope people will study this, but I know they probably wont...