Prayer Requests, Praise Reports & EdificationLife Group Leader

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Jay
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Life Group Leader

Postby Jay » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:25 pm

Some of you know that my wife and I attend First Baptist Church in Orlando, FL. I lead a praise and worship team, teach a newcomer's class to our Celebrate Recovery program and have been the assistant Life Group teacher for our group for the last two or three years. Just a couple of weeks ago, our life group leader and his wife left to take a job in Alabama and I would really covet your prayers about where our group goes from here and if my wife and I are supposed to lead it.

Our pastor has his doctorate but I'm amazed that he doesn't understand spiritual things in the Bible. What a shame that so many pastors just throw these things away. Sadly, this shows that our seminaries are not teaching the whole counsel of God and our pastors are following man's tradition instead of the Word of God. Our pastor teaches incredible sermons and most of the people in our church think his sermons are awesome but for the most part they are spiritually shallow. They are psychological messages instead of the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


You see people moved every week by our pastor's sermons but they are reaching people's souls, not their spirits. Consequently, we have a 15,000 member mega-church that is full of spiritual babies. If God chooses to use me and my wife, I would look at it as an opportunity to teach the whole counsel of God and lead His people how He wants them to be led.

Thanks!

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

NineCrows
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby NineCrows » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:29 pm

Jay wrote:Some of you know that my wife and I attend First Baptist Church in Orlando, FL. I lead a praise and worship team, teach a newcomer's class to our Celebrate Recovery program and have been the assistant Life Group teacher for our group for the last two or three years. Just a couple of weeks ago, our life group leader and his wife left to take a job in Alabama and I would really covet your prayers about where our group goes from here and if my wife and I are supposed to lead it.

Our pastor has his doctorate but I'm amazed that he doesn't understand spiritual things in the Bible. What a shame that so many pastors just throw these things away. Sadly, this shows that our seminaries are not teaching the whole counsel of God and our pastors are following man's tradition instead of the Word of God. Our pastor teaches incredible sermons and most of the people in our church think his sermons are awesome but for the most part they are spiritually shallow. They are psychological messages instead of the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


You see people moved every week by our pastor's sermons but they are reaching people's souls, not their spirits. Consequently, we have a 15,000 member mega-church that is full of spiritual babies. If God chooses to use me and my wife, I would look at it as an opportunity to teach the whole counsel of God and lead His people how He wants them to be led.

Thanks!

JayMc

Brother Jay,
Sounds to me like God has spoken to you already. Teaching the whole counsel is exactly what is needed at all times and in all places. However, since you're uncertain, I'm literally praying right now.



Ray
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Ray » Tue May 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Jay wrote:Some of you know that my wife and I attend First Baptist Church in Orlando, FL. I lead a praise and worship team, teach a newcomer's class to our Celebrate Recovery program and have been the assistant Life Group teacher for our group for the last two or three years. Just a couple of weeks ago, our life group leader and his wife left to take a job in Alabama and I would really covet your prayers about where our group goes from here and if my wife and I are supposed to lead it.

Our pastor has his doctorate but I'm amazed that he doesn't understand spiritual things in the Bible. What a shame that so many pastors just throw these things away. Sadly, this shows that our seminaries are not teaching the whole counsel of God and our pastors are following man's tradition instead of the Word of God. Our pastor teaches incredible sermons and most of the people in our church think his sermons are awesome but for the most part they are spiritually shallow. They are psychological messages instead of the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


You see people moved every week by our pastor's sermons but they are reaching people's souls, not their spirits. Consequently, we have a 15,000 member mega-church that is full of spiritual babies. If God chooses to use me and my wife, I would look at it as an opportunity to teach the whole counsel of God and lead His people how He wants them to be led.

Thanks!

JayMc

I'll stand with you in prayer about your concerns Brother.



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Jay
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Jay » Sat May 26, 2012 9:10 am

Thanks Guys.

They have asked me to lead the group. I had to fill out a questionnaire and a couple of the questions asked if I believed in and practiced, speaking in tongues. I was very honest and told them that I do believe it and I do speak in other tongues.

Then I had to go through an interview and the first question I was asked was about tongues. It gave me the opportunity to share what the Lord did for me when He baptized me in the Holy Spirit.

They said they didn't have a problem with the tongues but the one question they were very concerned about was if I was a Calvinist or not, which I'm not.

I would really appreciate all of your prayers as I lead this class in the First Baptist Church of Orlando!

Thanks again!

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Justaned
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Justaned » Sat May 26, 2012 11:37 am

Sounds to me like you are in spiritual conflict with the Pastor.

You as much as said you are more spiritual than your pastor.

How can you hold up his arms if you don't respect him spiritually?

Luke 11:23 (NKJV)
23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Remember the story of David and his mighty men. David's armour bearer was in total spiritual agreement with David and they overcome hundreds of philistines. However David also had mighty men that had problems with David and they eventually tried to steal David's kingdom. David also had men that thought they knew better than David and they caused David heart break and anquish.

There is a book you need to read God's Armor Bearer by Terry Nance published by Harrison House.

In my first church staff assignment my wise Pastor gave me this book to read and told me Ed if there ever comes a day when you can not be an Armour Bearer as seen in this book please do us both a favor and come to me and let us talk, pray and seek God's council.

Since that time every new staff member I hire I give them this book and tell them the same thing.

You need to resolve this before you do anything else.



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Jay
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Jay » Tue May 29, 2012 12:33 am

Justaned wrote:Sounds to me like you are in spiritual conflict with the Pastor.

You as much as said you are more spiritual than your pastor.

How can you hold up his arms if you don't respect him spiritually?

Luke 11:23 (NKJV)
23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Remember the story of David and his mighty men. David's armour bearer was in total spiritual agreement with David and they overcome hundreds of philistines. However David also had mighty men that had problems with David and they eventually tried to steal David's kingdom. David also had men that thought they knew better than David and they caused David heart break and anquish.

There is a book you need to read God's Armor Bearer by Terry Nance published by Harrison House.

In my first church staff assignment my wise Pastor gave me this book to read and told me Ed if there ever comes a day when you can not be an Armour Bearer as seen in this book please do us both a favor and come to me and let us talk, pray and seek God's council.

Since that time every new staff member I hire I give them this book and tell them the same thing.

You need to resolve this before you do anything else.


I think you read more into this than was there Ed. I believe in speaking in tongues. Our pastor has said, "I don't understand it and I don't do it but it is scriptural." Just because I pray in tongues doesn't mean I'm more spiritual than anyone. Just so you'll know, I have tons of respect for our pastor. I also understand what it is to respect authority and what it means to be an armor bearer. Thanks for you concern though.


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Justaned
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Justaned » Tue May 29, 2012 10:12 am

Jay wrote:
Justaned wrote:Sounds to me like you are in spiritual conflict with the Pastor.

You as much as said you are more spiritual than your pastor.

How can you hold up his arms if you don't respect him spiritually?

Luke 11:23 (NKJV)
23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Remember the story of David and his mighty men. David's armour bearer was in total spiritual agreement with David and they overcome hundreds of philistines. However David also had mighty men that had problems with David and they eventually tried to steal David's kingdom. David also had men that thought they knew better than David and they caused David heart break and anquish.

There is a book you need to read God's Armor Bearer by Terry Nance published by Harrison House.

In my first church staff assignment my wise Pastor gave me this book to read and told me Ed if there ever comes a day when you can not be an Armour Bearer as seen in this book please do us both a favor and come to me and let us talk, pray and seek God's council.

Since that time every new staff member I hire I give them this book and tell them the same thing.

You need to resolve this before you do anything else.


I think you read more into this than was there Ed. I believe in speaking in tongues. Our pastor has said, "I don't understand it and I don't do it but it is scriptural." Just because I pray in tongues doesn't mean I'm more spiritual than anyone. Just so you'll know, I have tons of respect for our pastor. I also understand what it is to respect authority and what it means to be an armor bearer. Thanks for you concern though.



Oh okay I just get worried when someones says their pastor doesn't understand spiritual things and just throws them away. That sounds to me like someone that feels spiritually superior because they "understand" spiritual things.

But hey if you respect him and can lift up his arms and not under mine him then I'm sorry I ever mentioned it.



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Jay
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby Jay » Tue May 29, 2012 2:03 pm

Ed, just like in these forums, I don't know if we'll ever find anyone that we totally agree with nor will we find people that totally agree with us. Our pastor is awesome and preaches some of the best sermons I've ever heard. One of the things I really like about this church is when the church brought him in, they transitioned from the old pastor, Jim Henry to this new one, David Uth over a three year period. I think that is a fantastic way to hand the mantle over, showing unity to the church. I know of one couple that began attending our church because they were so impressed with that.

I was surprised that Calvinism was more of a concern to them than baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, especially when R.C. Sproul's group, the Ligoniers have their yearly conference at our church. They are, without a doubt, Calvinistic in their theology.


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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David Ward Jr
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Re: Life Group Leader

Postby David Ward Jr » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:44 am

Jay wrote:Ed, just like in these forums, I don't know if we'll ever find anyone that we totally agree with nor will we find people that totally agree with us. Our pastor is awesome and preaches some of the best sermons I've ever heard. One of the things I really like about this church is when the church brought him in, they transitioned from the old pastor, Jim Henry to this new one, David Uth over a three year period. I think that is a fantastic way to hand the mantle over, showing unity to the church. I know of one couple that began attending our church because they were so impressed with that.

I was surprised that Calvinism was more of a concern to them than baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, especially when R.C. Sproul's group, the Ligoniers have their yearly conference at our church. They are, without a doubt, Calvinistic in their theology.


Follow up:

How's the Life Group going, Jay? I'm trying to wake up with some coffee while my son watches Sesame Street.

I've thought of going back to the Baptist church my wife grew up in. Her Dad was music minister there for 27 and a half years. I met her at that church when I got out of prison. That was also the church my parents went to. I was VERY involved in the beginning. I spent a lot of time with the youth minister who was my same age (9 days difference). We had Bible discussions all the time away from church. I was asked one day by the Sunday School teacher if I would teach the class while he was on vacation? So I chose to teach about "Repentance Defined In Two Words (HATE EVIL)." The class loved the class and everything was fine.

I was quite involved with the youth and had Bible discussions with them quite a bit. I was later asked to by my Sunday School Teacher if I could take over his spot in Sunday School. So, I accepted enthusiastically! Everything seemed to be going fine. I encouraged open discussion and civilized debate in the class (Singles Class - Ages 21 to 35). Everyone seemed to be motivated and enjoyed the discussions we had. We even met at coffee shops once a week for Bible study outside of church. I was still involved with the youth on Wednesday evenings and Sunday evenings. I started teaching a class for the youth on Sunday evenings as well. One evening some parents came to a youth class I taught while I covered the following passage:

    2 Corinthians 10:1-6 (KJV)
    1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
    2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

I explained to them how we are tempted in our mind with thoughts and asked them if we can bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ? I asked them if God's Word means what it says? I had many other passages on the same subject available on a hand out for them to follow. The youth were eager to accept the truth but the parents in the room were having a hard time BELIEVING WHAT THE WORD SAYS! One mother was getting a little combative half way into the lesson but was able to calm down. She INSISTED we all sin every day in thought, word or deed and left it at that.

Well, I did not want to get into a heated argument with her or other parents in front of the youth in the classroom. I went to the church quite often with the youth minister to workout, play basketball, etc. That Saturday morning, I met the youth minister there to have a workout, only to find myself being led to the preacher's office. The preacher asked me several questions. One of them was, "Do you believe in Calvin's teachings on God's grace?" I asked him if God's grace gives us a license to continue in the sins that we love? I asked him if we can CHANGE our attitude and love for sin and resist the devil and temptation? I asked him if we could have a discussion about living soberly, righteously and godly in this present world? He didn't care to hear any of it. He didn't want to have a discussion about it. He then asked me what Study Bible I used. I told him, "Dake's Annotated Reference Bible." He said he never heard of it. He asked if Dake taught what I was teaching the youth and the singles class? I told him, "Yes!" He then told me I can no longer teach in those classes. He told me my teaching puts an "unbearable yoke on those who hear it and he cannot allow it to be taught in HIS church." I saw then it was pointless to try to discuss things any further with him. I saw I was there to be scolded instead of having a meaningful discussion with sound reasoning.

I began having problems with my parents on Bible doctrine after my dad got wind of my being stripped away from Sunday School teaching. My dad would not hear anything I had to say. He would not sit down with me and reason through the scriptures. He told me he has taught Sunday School for over 20 years and acted as though he knew the truth and had "No need for me to lecture him on Bible doctrines." I told him, "IF we HABITUALLY continue in the same sin(s) over and over again, we need to seriously judge ourselves and become determined to change our attitude and love for that sin, resolving to commit it NO LONGER. Otherwise, people might call us a hypocrite." My Dad then yelled at me, "Pack your things and get out of this house!" My mom told us both to calm down and told me to stop packing my things [while I was packing]. This was approximately 5 months out of prison. Well, we calmed down and we NEVER discussed the Bible again, to this very day. We love one another and respect one another, but no Bible discussion.

I began looking for another church and found a great one with a wonderful preacher, Raymond Culpepper.
You can read about him on Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Culpepper

He left "Metro" in 2008. That was a sad day for all of us. The man was a great inspiration to so many! Some members would speak in tongues in the congregation and others would interpret. We had healing in the church. The service seemed to be the closest I've ever seen to following the biblical order of things during church service. The church has gone down hill over the years after he left. The order in which the service is held is not the same as it once was. We used to have two PACKED church services every Sunday but now only one that is a little over half full. Many have left and gone who knows where. IT IS VERY SAD INDEED! I love him very much, but one man does not make a church.

It seems most Baptist churches swear by Calvinism. I'm happy to hear you were selected for the Life Group without agreeing to Calvinism! At least your church is not abusive. I considered the preacher who once preached at Lakeside Baptist ABUSIVE, all in the name of God. I would alternate back and forth from Metro to Lakeside to continue my relationship with friends in the Singles class at Lakeside. I got the courage to ask my wife (at Lakeside) out on a date October 27, 1996. We started getting serious and I stayed at Lakeside Baptist with her till we were married [Remember, her dad was music minister there]. We both became members at Metropolitan Church of God shortly after our marriage.

Again, I've thought of returning to Lakeside [different pastor and my parents attend a different church now - Hunter Street] in an attempt to help others rightly divide the Word of Truth. However, I would only do so with adults and not youth. The adults are very protective of the minds of children and youth, which is understandable. However, I think youth are capable of sound reasoning. Don't you?

Please tell me any tips [if any] you might have on "tactfulness" when trying to direct Calvinistic Minded people in a Calvinistic church towards, what you might say, is a "Dake Minded People?" If I do go to Lakeside again, they will have to kick me out if they want to get rid of me...LOL! I held back the rest of my time I was there with my wife before we became members at Metro. I held back for the sake of not embarrassing my parents and my wife's parents. No holding back if I go back again. Maybe you recommend I don't go back? The reason I'm considering go back is because ALL of my wife's family still goes there. I'm beginning to think I should not go there to avoid tension between my own family and my wife's relatives. However, the Bible does say that some may have to forsake their mother, father, sister or brother for the sake of the Truth. I welcome the input from any member of this board regarding this subject.

In Christ,


David Ward Jr

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." (Prov. 8:13)


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