Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ This Demonic Rubbish: Discerning the False Teachers from the True

[Hill Top]

There shouldn't be a delay, but that is what we would have seen if the adulterer in Corinth had repented.
Or any of those Paul had noted were now gone from the church.

I really can't think of anyone in the bible coming back after having committed a sin, in the NT, so I really don't have any example of what to do with the untrue.

Thanks. This puts a lot of things we have discussed in prior conversations in a new light. I think I've misunderstood your position for quite a while.

Thank you.

Can you tell me what it was you misunderstood previously ?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Can you tell me what it was you misunderstood previously ?

I thought that you believed that if someone sinned after their water baptism, their baptism was invalid because their sin demonstrated that their repentance from sin was not real.

The idea that someone could be baptized in your church and later be found to be living in sin with his step mother, but his baptism is still counted as valid seems different to my prior understanding of your beliefs.

[Hill Top]

Can you tell me what it was you misunderstood previously ?

I thought that you believed that if someone sinned after their water baptism, their baptism was invalid because their sin demonstrated that their repentance from sin was not real.

I don't think that baptism can be invalidated by later sins.
The sin would certainly show a lack of faith in what is accomplished at baptism besides the remission of past sins.
That being, the death of the "flesh", (Rom 6:6), our death with Jesus, (Rom 6:3-4), and the resurrection with Christ of a new creature. (Rom 6:4,6)

The idea that someone could be baptized in your church and later be found to be living in sin with his step mother, but his baptism is still counted as valid seems different to my prior understanding of your beliefs.

Baptism without faith is worthless, but the baptism itself was still completed.
They have crucified themselves to the Son of God, as per Heb. 6:6.
That can't be done again.

Again, I don't remember anyone in NT scripture coming back into fellowship, after forsaking their repentance from sin, so I have nothing to base my conclusions on.
But the door is always open to them, if they will repent.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I don't think that baptism can be invalidated by later sins.
The sin would certainly show a lack of faith in what is accomplished at baptism besides the remission of past sins.
That being, the death of the "flesh", (Rom 6:6), our death with Jesus, (Rom 6:3-4), and the resurrection with Christ of a new creature. (Rom 6:4,6)

Baptism without faith is worthless, but the baptism itself was still completed.
They have crucified themselves to the Son of God, as per Heb. 6:6.
That can't be done again.

Again, I don't remember anyone in NT scripture coming back into fellowship, after forsaking their repentance from sin, so I have nothing to base my conclusions on.
But the door is always open to them, if they will repent.

If baptism cannot be invalidated by later sins and baptism cannot be done, again, how are later sins washed away?

[Hill Top]

I don't think that baptism can be invalidated by later sins.
The sin would certainly show a lack of faith in what is accomplished at baptism besides the remission of past sins.
That being, the death of the "flesh", (Rom 6:6), our death with Jesus, (Rom 6:3-4), and the resurrection with Christ of a new creature. (Rom 6:4,6)

Baptism without faith is worthless, but the baptism itself was still completed.
They have crucified themselves to the Son of God, as per Heb. 6:6.
That can't be done again.

Again, I don't remember anyone in NT scripture coming back into fellowship, after forsaking their repentance from sin, so I have nothing to base my conclusions on.
But the door is always open to them, if they will repent.

If baptism cannot be invalidated by later sins and baptism cannot be done, again, how are later sins washed away?

Only a true repentance from sin will "seal the deal" of the initial baptism.
Then, God will forgive.
Like in baseball, you can't score till you touch all the bases.
Repentance is one of the "bases" to be touched for forgiveness of sins.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Only a true repentance from sin will "seal the deal" of the initial baptism.
Then, God will forgive.
Like in baseball, you can't score till you touch all the bases.
Repentance is one of the "bases" to be touched for forgiveness of sins.

Interesting.
Yet, in baseball, the bases have to be touched in a certain order to score.

[Hill Top]

Only a true repentance from sin will "seal the deal" of the initial baptism.
Then, God will forgive.
Like in baseball, you can't score till you touch all the bases.
Repentance is one of the "bases" to be touched for forgiveness of sins.

Interesting.
Yet, in baseball, the bases have to be touched in a certain order to score.

Baseball was as close a simile as I could think of.

Cornelius, and his bunch, received the gifts of the Holy Ghost and tongues before their baptisms.
So the order isn't imperative to salvation.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Baseball was as close a simile as I could think of.

Cornelius, and his bunch, received the gifts of the Holy Ghost and tongues before their baptisms.
So the order isn't imperative to salvation.

What if neither one is imperitive to salvation? What if both are simply evidences of salvation or testimony there unto?

[Hill Top]

Baseball was as close a simile as I could think of.

Cornelius, and his bunch, received the gifts of the Holy Ghost and tongues before their baptisms.
So the order isn't imperative to salvation.

What if neither one is imperitive to salvation? What if both are simply evidences of salvation or testimony there unto?

Don't you think that the evidence and testimony are imperatives ?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Don't you think that the evidence and testimony are imperatives ?

Depends upon whether or not you mean by "imperitive" that it is a requirement in order to be saved.
If yes, then no.