Dake Bible Discussion BoardGREAT understanding of Free Will

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:52 pm

macca wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:33 am
For a child to sin that child must make a conscience decision to break the law of their conscience to do what they know is wrong.

Isaiah states about his own son thus:
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, etc
Right, yet Death still reigns even over those who don't wilfully sin, simply because they are in Adam rather than in Christ. So, unless you can get them out of Adam, then they are still ruled by Death.

It's Adam's sin that damns people, even if they do not personally sin, themselves. In order to avoid this fate, they must get out of Adam.



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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:01 pm

macca wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:33 am
Isaiah states about his own son thus:
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, etc

Look at the v,14; talking of Jesus....
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bare a son, and shall call his name
Immanuel.

We cannot conceive of the conception of Jesus to produce a sin effected human can we, who was the Father of Jesus?
God the Father of cause,,,and so it is with all human babies conceived on the Earth,,,,for God almighty is the Father of spirits.

All man does is reproduce his own likeness in the flesh; where the spirit is the likeness of God.

macca
If that's true, then I do not understand why Jesus had to come at all. Anyone child could have been sacrificed for all of us if all children's spirits are pure because God is the Father of All Spirits.

I believe Jesus' virgin birth was more important than that. Not only did it ensure that His flesh was pure, but also that His human soul and spirit was pure.

Furthermore, Adam is said to have begotten Seth "in his own likeness" and "after his image." Dake says that "Adam was created in the likeness of God (Gen. 1:26-28); people are begotten in Adam's likeness. God's likeness was perfect; Adam's was imperfect and depraved, with the law of sin and death working in and bringing it to ruin (Job 14:4; 25:4; Ps. 14:3; 51:5; Rom. 5:12-21; 1Cor. 15:39; Eph. 2:2-3)." (Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.)

I agree with Dake that human offspring are "imperfect and depraved, with the law of sin and death working in them." Therefore, I conclude that unless this is somehow corrected, such persons are hellbound.



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macca
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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by macca » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 am

So, all children are hell bound unless they get bornagain?
Even the misscarried, aborted and killed with their mother?


For ALL the promises of God in Him are YES, and in Him AMEN, unto the glory of God by us.

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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by branham1965 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 am

You are as wrong as you can be.

Babies and children are innocent before God.

You gave all your ..reasoning on it.

And i gave Bible verses.And they were ignored.

Once again

in Saint Matthew's Gospel chapter 18 verses 1-10

verse 10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones,FOR I SAY TO YOU ,THAT THEIR ANGELS IN HEAVEN CONTINUALLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN. NASB 1971
LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR. ROMANS 3:4


Dad Hagin talked about this.He said as a toddler he used to preach to the cabbage heads .

And he remembered later when he chose to sin and he died.He felt it.

When he was 16 he went to hell on his death bed.

He trusted in water baptism and being a member of the Baptist church.

He cried out for mercy and called on the name of the Lord and he was born again on his death bed.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CREDIBLE PROVEN PREACHER OF THE GOSPEL THAT TEACHES THAT BABIES AND YOUNG ONES GO TO HELL.

ALL WOULD REFUTE THIS AS BEING CRUEL AND UNJUST .

AND WOULD CONDEMN IT AS RANK HERESY.



Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:52 pm
macca wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:33 am
For a child to sin that child must make a conscience decision to break the law of their conscience to do what they know is wrong.

Isaiah states about his own son thus:
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, etc
Right, yet Death still reigns even over those who don't wilfully sin, simply because they are in Adam rather than in Christ. So, unless you can get them out of Adam, then they are still ruled by Death.

It's Adam's sin that damns people, even if they do not personally sin, themselves. In order to avoid this fate, they must get out of Adam.



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branham1965
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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by branham1965 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:29 am

macca


That teaching is nothing but the unvarnished devil as Dad Hagin used to say.




macca wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 am
So, all children are hell bound unless they get bornagain?
Even the misscarried, aborted and killed with their mother?



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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by luchnia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:52 am

Doesn't one have to choose depravity? An infant cannot choose anything as they have not developed anything that is capable of choosing in my opinion. Yet there are some fascinating scriptures that make you ponder certain things such as John the Baptist that had the Spirit in the womb. I wonder what he was like when he popped out :shocked!:

I don't agree with infants being depraved, except those born of the evil seed that God had to destroy. To me being born in sin does not make one a sinner. John is the perfect example of that. John was born in sin, yet had the Spirit in the womb which we know the Spirit did not sin.

Jesus had remarkable words for John. Some would say John, like others needed to repent and accept Jesus, yet the Scriptures do not record such an event happening with John, and yet he was born of man in the flesh. John simply does not fit the total depravity full of sin model at all. After all, Scripture shows us that Jesus did not come for the righteous, but the unrighteous.


Word up!

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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:14 pm

macca wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 am
So, all children are hell bound unless they get bornagain?
Even the misscarried, aborted and killed with their mother?
I would have to say yes, Macca.



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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Ironman » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:26 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:14 pm
macca wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 am
So, all children are hell bound unless they get bornagain?
Even the misscarried, aborted and killed with their mother?
I would have to say yes, Macca.
AGAIN WRONG!

Here is biblical proof about the death of infants. In 2 Samuel 12 we learn of David’s affair with Bathsheba, another man’s wife. David was informed by the prophet Nathan that the child produced by that union would die.

David then began to fast and pray, asking the Lord to not carry out His judgment. When the child did die, David got up from praying and fasting and ate something.

When asked about this behavior, David uttered the words recorded in 2 Samuel 12:23;

Verse “Now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”

David’s words reflect a clear understanding that the child could not come back to earth, but David would be with his child one day in heaven.

This indicates not only David’s assurance of his own future in heaven; Psalm 23:6, "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever," but also the assurance that his child would share that future. From this account, we can conclude that infants who die are destined for heaven.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:31 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 am
You are as wrong as you can be.

Babies and children are innocent before God.

You gave all your ..reasoning on it.

And i gave Bible verses.And they were ignored.

Once again

in Saint Matthew's Gospel chapter 18 verses 1-10

verse 10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones,FOR I SAY TO YOU ,THAT THEIR ANGELS IN HEAVEN CONTINUALLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN. NASB 1971
LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR. ROMANS 3:4
I definitely agree that we should let God be true and every man be a liar. No argument there.

As to babies and children being innocent before God, I've already proven that this is not always the case. Most are unclean. Some are absolutely wicked (see Psalm 58). And, sometimes God kills some because of His ever enduring mercy (see Psalm 136:10). Jesus, Himself, personally kills the children of some in order to punish them for their evil and prevent their children from continuing it (Rev. 2:23). Praise Him for His mercy! And, consider that since He is cutting off their opportunity to sin, He is also preventing them from being punished for wilful sins in Hell.

As to you giving Bible verses and me supposedly giving only reason, you are mistaken. My faith concerning this matter is firmly established upon what the Bible says and aligns with the reasoning behind the historic practice of circumcising, baptizing, and/or dedicating infants to the Lord.

My apologies if you feel that I've ignored Matthew 18:1-10. First, please notice that both conversion and becoming as a little child is required. One or the other by itself is not enough. Therefore, this passage does not exclude infants from conversion. Then, Jesus points out that the little ones in question believe in Him! Therefore, they can believe! Furthermore, the little ones in question were part of the Jewish community and would have been covered by the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants through the obedience of their parents until they were old enough to be responsible for their own actions. So, Matthew 18:1-10 strengthens my case and weakens yours.



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Re: GREAT understanding of Free Will

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:37 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 am
Dad Hagin talked about this.He said as a toddler he used to preach to the cabbage heads .

And he remembered later when he chose to sin and he died.He felt it.

When he was 16 he went to hell on his death bed.

He trusted in water baptism and being a member of the Baptist church.

He cried out for mercy and called on the name of the Lord and he was born again on his death bed.
Hagin was also raised in a Christian home, which explains his experience as a toddler with the "cabbage heads", for me. Remember, if there's at least one believing parent, the child is clean (1st Cor. 7:14). And, even in his deathbed experience, it was the prayers of His grandmother that kept him out of Hell.

Never underestimate the power of a grandmother's prayers.



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