Dake Bible Discussion BoardStephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by bibleman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:40 am

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:44 am
So you do not believe in death bed conversions???

Is it possible a person might be saved at the very end of their lives???

Can a person get saved at the last minute? YES.

Did Hawkins call on Jesus at the last minute? Sadly we have NO record, NO testimony, NO reason to believe that he did.

But if you still want to put him in Heaven without him accepting Jesus... that is your choice.

I think I will stick with the Word of God on this one.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


God bless
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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:44 pm

I am not putting him in heaven without accepting Jesus.I could not put anyone there or elsewhere.



With all respect Reverend i think it is you who cannot admit he might have converted at the end.

Could a man be converted on a battlefield before he was killed???
bibleman wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:40 am
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:44 am
So you do not believe in death bed conversions???

Is it possible a person might be saved at the very end of their lives???

Can a person get saved at the last minute? YES.

Did Hawkins call on Jesus at the last minute? Sadly we have NO record, NO testimony, NO reason to believe that he did.

But if you still want to put him in Heaven without him accepting Jesus... that is your choice.

I think I will stick with the Word of God on this one.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by bibleman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:27 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:44 pm
I am not putting him in heaven without accepting Jesus.I could not put anyone there or elsewhere.

With all respect Reverend i think it is you who cannot admit he might have converted at the end.

Could a man be converted on a battlefield before he was killed???
I said it over and over Billy... YES he could have asked for forgiveness before he dies. He could have repented before he died... YES YES YES.

BUt there is NO record, NO testimony and NO proof that he did.

So we are left to judge him based on how he lived and what he confessed himself.

HE said (not me) that there is NO God.

Based on his testimony MANY thousands may have very well believed as he did - because of him - thus while he lived he was a tool of the devil at the very least.

NOW if you want to put him in Heaven then what do you base that on???


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by Ironman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm

I found this;

Did Stephen Hawkins really convert to Christianity?

In a time-honoured tradition that goes back at least to the life and death of Charles Darwin, some Christians are claiming that a famous scientist converted to the faith before he died.
This time, it's Stephen Hawking, whose death at the age of 76 on March 14 was that same day used by the group Catholics Online on to declare on Facebook that he suddenly believed after being blessed by Pope Francis.
As the fact-check website Snopes highlighted, Catholics Online stated:
'Before he died, Stiph [sic] Hawkins [sic] who did not believe in God requested to visit the Vatican. "Now l believe" was the only statement he made after the Holy Father blessed him.'


Snopes explained: 'There is no evidence that Hawking deviated from those lifelong views before his death, and he did not make any declaration of faith after a meeting with Pope Francis. The photograph in the Facebook post shows Hawking and Francis together at the Vatican in November 2016, the last time the two men met. Contrary to the claim, Hawking did not request a private visit with the pontiff; rather, he travelled to Rome for a scheduled meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
'Hawking was a valued member of the academy, having been appointed to it by Pope Paul VI in 1968. The Pontifical Academy of Sciences listed has among its aims "fostering interaction between faith and reason and encouraging dialogue between science and spiritual, cultural, philosophical and religious values." After his death, the academy honored Hawking, tweeting a series of photographs of the physicist meeting Popes Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis.'
Nonetheless, Hawking's views on religion were pretty clear.

In 2010, he told ABC News: 'One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary.'
Indeed, in his 2010 book, Grand Design, Hawking declared that God was not needed for the start of the universe, and in an interview with the Guardian a year later, he dismissed religion.
'I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail,' he said. 'There is no heaven or afterlife for broken-down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.'
That's not to say he had no positive relationship with Christianity. Christian Today's editor Mark Woods, in an article titled 'Did Stephen Hawking believe in God,' speculated thus:

'It may be, in fact, that his views evolved over time. I'm told he attended St Andrew's Street Baptist Church in Cambridge on occasion years ago, and his first wife Jane was a Christian. Journalist Andrew Graystone recalled today on Twitter interviewing him once, saying: "I asked him at length whether he believed there is a God. He refused to answer the question. When I asked him why, he said "If I say I believe in God, everyone will immediately claim that I believe in the same God they believe in. So I won't say at all."'
But that is a very different form of speculation to some of the unhinged claims now being made about Hawking elsewhere.
As the website Right Wing Watch has pointed out, one US evangelical pastor, Mike Shoesmith, has said that Hawking was kept alive despite his illnesses by the devil as an agent in a spiritual battle with Billy Graham.
'[Graham] is a hundred percent devoted,' Shoesmith said. 'The Lord sees his heart, gives him a tremendous ministry, and who do you think is sitting in the background going, "I have to do something about this, this guy is sold out, I have to do something?" Who do you think is sitting in the background doing that? The devil, right?

'So, in 1942, that is when Billy Graham's ministry really takes off, and who do you think was born in 1942? Stephen Hawking. Stephen Hawking comes from a long line of atheists—his father and all these people—so I believe the devil said, "OK, this guy was just born and I'm going to use this guy. This guy is already primed to accept my message that there is no God. He is already primed for it, he is going to be awash, immersed in atheism all his years as a child, I'm going to take over this guy's life."'
Shoesmith went on: 'I believe Stephen Hawking was kept alive by demonic forces. I believe that it was the demonic realm that kept this man alive as a virtual vegetable his entire life just so he could spread this message that there is no God.'
As Right Wing Watch noted, Shoesmith went on to assert that if Hawking had simply reached out to God, Jesus would have cast the demons out of him and he would have been completely healed.


Indeed, it is because of the perceived war between science and religion that some conservative Christians attempt to claim leading scientists as their own.

Of course, it all goes back to the 'big bang' and the question of whether God created the world, for if Hawking and his like were right, then that particular strain of conservative Christianity that insists evolution is fale are wrong.
In reality, many sensible Christians know that science and faith are far from mutually exclusive.
But the claim by some that they are incompatible, typical of this binary era, means this battle will surely run and run.

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/ ... 127627.htm


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by Ironman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:57 pm

Stephen Hawkins, God did not create the universe.

God did not create the universe, Stephen Hawking revealed yesterday. In the flurry of publicity preceding his new book, The Grand Design, to be published next week, he does some serious dissing of the Almighty, declaring him/her/it irrelevant. The point is, he says, that our universe followed inevitably from the laws of nature. But, we might ask, where did they come from?
It is perhaps a bit rich for Hawking to make God redundant after granting him/her/it a celebrity cameo at the end of his multi-million selling A Brief History of Time. In his famous conclusion to the book, Hawking wrote that if scientists could find the most fundamental laws of nature "then we should know the mind of God". To be fair, he was writing metaphorically – we all know what he meant.
He now suggests that the search for this particular Holy Grail is over, now that scientists have come up with a type of theory, known as M-theory, that may describe the behaviour of all the fundamental particles and force, and even account for the very birth of the universe. If this theory is backed up by experiment, it might perhaps replace all religious accounts of creation – in Hawking's capacious mind, it already has.
The science-religion debate has been going on since science was born, centuries ago. Until relatively recently, it seemed to have quietened down, but now Hawking and others have brought it back into the limelight. It's striking that the scientists who contribute most vociferously to the arguments work in the field of evolutionary biology and fundamental physics. These, at least superficially, appear to be the territories where science and religion can make conflicting claims, leading us to ask which has the better case. But are they alternatives? Is there really any serious argument between the two?
Science and religion are about fundamentally different things. No religion has ever been rendered obsolete by facts or observations, but this happens to most scientific theories, at least in the long run. Science advances over the wreckage of its theories by continually putting theoretical ideas to experimental test; no matter how beautiful a theoretical idea might be, it must be discarded if it is at odds with experiment. Like any other human activity, science has flaws and does not always flow smoothly, but no one can seriously doubt the progress it has made in helping us understand the world and in helping to underpin technology.
Related Articles

Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe 03 Sep 2010
A useful characteristic of a scientific theory is that it must be possible, at least in principle, for experimenters to prove it wrong. Newton and Darwin, two of the greatest theoreticians, both set out ideas in this way, putting their heads on Nature's chopping block. In Newton's case, at least, his ideas have been superseded after proving inadequate in some circumstances. Unlike many religions, science has no final authority; the Royal Society, the UK academy of sciences, expresses this neatly in its motto "Take nobody's word for it".

No religion has ever been set out in terms of scientific statements. This is why scientists are able to mock the claims of religions but have never been able to deal a knock-out blow: in the end, a religious believer can always fall back on a faith that does not depend on verification.

The most famous atheist scientist of our times is the fearless Richard Dawkins, whose God Delusion set out to discredit religion once and for all. For him, it was Darwin's theory of evolution that dealt the fatal blow to religious belief. Powerful and eloquent though it was, religion continues to flourish, and scientists (albeit a minority) continue to go to church, just as Galileo, Newton, Faraday and others have done in the past. I suspect that none of them would have abandoned their respective faiths after reading Dawkins (admittedly, not a scientific statement). Religions will survive so long as they steer clear of making statements that can be shown to be factually wrong.
The kind of science done by Stephen Hawking, one of the leading theoretical physicists of modern times, has an almost religious ring to it. He and his colleagues are trying to find the patterns in the basic fabric of reality – the mathematical laws that govern the workings of nature at its finest level. There is plenty of evidence that these laws hold good all the way back to the beginning of time, which is how scientists have put together an extremely detailed and well-tested theory of the Big Bang, the first few minutes of the universe. The Large Hadron Collider will soon be reproducing, at will, the conditions in the universe within a billionth of a second of the beginning of time.
This has led writers to invest these experiments with a theological significance. The distinguished experimenter Leon Lederman labelled the Higgs particle, being sought at the Collider, as the God Particle, with no good reason except as a hook to promote his book, which he named after it. Yet these experiments will tell us nothing about God. They will simply steer us towards an improved theoretical understanding of our material universe, ultimately in terms of principles set out in mathematics.
Yet this is where religion can sneak back into the picture. Einstein, to the frustration of many of his colleagues, was fond of referring to God when he was talking about the laws expressing the fundamental harmonies of the universe. As Dawkins rightly stresses, it is quite clear that Einstein did not think of God as a white-bearded benefactor capable of interfering with the functioning of the universe. Rather, Einstein followed closely the views of the philosopher Spinoza, for whom the concept of God is an expression of the underlying unity of the universe, something so wondrous that it can command a spiritual awe.
Einstein's views were largely shared by his acquaintance Paul Dirac, the greatest English theoretician since Newton. Dirac, like Newton and Hawking, held the Lucasian Chair of Mathematics at Cambridge University. For Dirac, the greatest mystery of the universe was that its most fundamental laws can be expressed in terms of beautiful mathematical equations. Towards the end of his life, in the 1970s and early 1980s, Dirac often said that mathematical beauty "is almost a religion to me".
As a young man, he was an outspoken atheist, drawing his colleague Wolfgang Pauli to comment, "There is no God and Dirac is his prophet." Decades later, in 1963, Dirac was happy to use theological imagery: "God is a mathematician of a very high order." He was speaking metaphorically, but we know what he meant. Yet I think it is misleading, especially when talking about science to non-specialists, to play fast and loose with the idea of God.
Hawking's view appears to be that the belief in a God-created universe can be supplanted by a belief in M-theory, a good candidate for a fundamental theory of nature at its finest level. Experts assure us of the potential of this theory and I for one am quite prepared to believe them.
One problem with the theory is that it looks as though it will be extremely difficult to test, unless physicists can build a particle accelerator the size of a galaxy. Even if the experimenters find a way round this and M-theory passes all their tests, the reasons for the mathematical order at the heart of the universe's order would remain an unsolvable mystery.
Even religious scientists – and there are still a few – never use the God concept in their scientific work. Perhaps it is time for a moratorium on the use of the concept in popularisations, too? This would avoid mixing up scientific and non-scientific statements and put an end to the consequent confusions. I think it wise for scientists and religious believers to keep out of each other's territory – no good has come out of their engagement and I suspect it never will.
But this is naive. The science-religion relationship, in so far as there is one, continues to be a crowd-pleaser. It seems to be a fundamental law of PR that the God-science debate is a sure-fire source of publicity. Always welcome when one has a book to sell.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:16 am

I was off the rails on this thing.

You were right.

I am not thinking straight these days.
bibleman wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:27 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:44 pm
I am not putting him in heaven without accepting Jesus.I could not put anyone there or elsewhere.

With all respect Reverend i think it is you who cannot admit he might have converted at the end.

Could a man be converted on a battlefield before he was killed???
I said it over and over Billy... YES he could have asked for forgiveness before he dies. He could have repented before he died... YES YES YES.

BUt there is NO record, NO testimony and NO proof that he did.

So we are left to judge him based on how he lived and what he confessed himself.

HE said (not me) that there is NO God.

Based on his testimony MANY thousands may have very well believed as he did - because of him - thus while he lived he was a tool of the devil at the very least.

NOW if you want to put him in Heaven then what do you base that on???
Last edited by branham1965 on Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.



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branham1965
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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:20 am

I was off center on this Haz. :agrue:

Thank you for your help.

I looked into Bible Truths Unmasked by Rev.Dake. I was under the wrong influence.

I believe as i learned(years ago) from the Dake Reference Bible that there is a place called Hell just like there is a Heaven.



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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by Ironman » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:13 pm

Cambridge prepares for funeral of Stephen Hawking tomorrow with the well-known atheist being remembered at a church service before his ashes are interred in Westminster Abbey
Scientist was mourned around the world after his death at his home on March 14
Funeral to be held at Cambridge church close to the college where he worked
His ashes will be interred at Westminster Abbey next to Isaac Newton's grave
By Richard Spillett for MailOnline
Published: 23:27 AEDT, 30 March 2018 | Updated: 02:30 AEDT, 31 March 2018 .

The city of Cambridge is preparing for the funeral of one of its university's most famous professors.
A private service will be held in memory of Stephen Hawking at 2pm at Great St Mary's church in the centre of the city, following the scientist's death on March 14.
The church is close to Gonville and Caius College, where Prof Hawking was a fellow for 52 years.
Since his death at home earlier this month, thousands of people have visited this college to sign his book of condolence.
Despite having said he is an atheist, Prof Hawking's family felt a traditional church service would give his many friends in the city a chance to remember and pay tribute to him.

Stephen Hawking's children, Lucy, Robert and Tim, said in a statement: 'Our father lived and worked in Cambridge for over 50 years.
'He was an integral and highly recognisable part of the university and the city.
'For this reason, we have decided to hold his funeral in the city that he loved so much and which loved him. Our father's life and work meant many things to many people, both religious and non-religious. So, the service will be both inclusive and traditional, reflecting the breadth and diversity of his life.'

Reverend Peter Judd, the priest in charge at Great St Mary's, told Cambridge News: 'At the request of the family, it will be a traditional service tailored to the family's requirements. The capacity of the church is 700 but we understand there will be 500 people there.
'My colleague Devin McLachlan (the associate vicar) and myself will be there to greet people as they arrive.'

Following tomorrow's service, Prof Hawking's ashes with be interred next to the grave of Sir Isaac Newton at Westminster Abbey.
The Dean of Westminster, the Very Reverend Dr John Hall, said: 'It is entirely fitting that the remains of Professor Stephen Hawking are to be buried in the Abbey, near those of distinguished fellow scientists. Sir Isaac Newton was buried in the Abbey in 1727. Charles Darwin was buried beside Isaac Newton in 1882.

Some of the many flowers which will be brought to tomorrow's church service
'Other famous scientists are buried or memorialised nearby, the most recent burials being those of atomic physicists Ernest Rutherford in 1937 and Joseph John Thomson in 1940.
'We believe it to be vital that science and religion work together to seek to answer the great questions of the mystery of life and of the universe.'
Prof Hawking died on March 14, at the age of 76, after a lifetime as one of the world's most renowned scientists despite his battle with motor neurone disease.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... wking.html


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by Grandfather » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm

bibleman wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:27 pm
So we are left to judge him based on how he lived and what he confessed himself.
Sorry, we are not the one to judge his eternal state and that is the problem.

The judging of his soul remain in the hands of the Father, not “we”! Getting into heaven is not a majority vote, in fact the opinions of Christians does not weigh in that decision at all. Hawkins eternal state, and to that matter the eternal state of everyone, is between them and God. If it were left to us, some of those that say “did we not do these works in your Name” will get in, because we, regardless of how good a judge we think we may be, judge on outward signs and appearances, however God judges the heart.

So, while you may indeed be 100% correct in that all the evidence of how Hawkins lived would lead to conclusion of eternal damnation, we do not know what happened in those final minutes, seconds, even portions of a second. And that is all the time it takes to get things right with God. It does not matter if a person leads 1 or 1 million souls astray as long as they repeat and confess Him as Lord and believe in their heart... (you know the verse). So, while there is, as you said, no evidence to support that he did repent in those final moments, I say to you, there is also no evidence he did not repent in those moments as well. So, it is pointless to speculate on matters we know nothing of.

What we can say, and I think agree upon, is this.... Hawkins now knows there is a God, creator of all.



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Re: Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

Post by frenchie » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:08 pm

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm
bibleman wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:27 pm
So we are left to judge him based on how he lived and what he confessed himself.
Sorry, we are not the one to judge his eternal state and that is the problem.

The judging of his soul remain in the hands of the Father, not “we”! Getting into heaven is not a majority vote, in fact the opinions of Christians does not weigh in that decision at all. Hawkins eternal state, and to that matter the eternal state of everyone, is between them and God. If it were left to us, some of those that say “did we not do these works in your Name” will get in, because we, regardless of how good a judge we think we may be, judge on outward signs and appearances, however God judges the heart.

So, while you may indeed be 100% correct in that all the evidence of how Hawkins lived would lead to conclusion of eternal damnation, we do not know what happened in those final minutes, seconds, even portions of a second. And that is all the time it takes to get things right with God. It does not matter if a person leads 1 or 1 million souls astray as long as they repeat and confess Him as Lord and believe in their heart... (you know the verse). So, while there is, as you said, no evidence to support that he did repent in those final moments, I say to you, there is also no evidence he did not repent in those moments as well. So, it is pointless to speculate on matters we know nothing of.

What we can say, and I think agree upon, is this.... Hawkins now knows there is a God, creator of all.
:smilecolros: Amen :smilecolros:



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