Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Stephen Hawkins has died aged 76.

[bibleman]

So we are left to judge him based on how he lived and what he confessed himself.

Sorry, we are not the one to judge his eternal state and that is the problem.

The judging of his soul remain in the hands of the Father, not “we”! Getting into heaven is not a majority vote, in fact the opinions of Christians does not weigh in that decision at all. Hawkins eternal state, and to that matter the eternal state of everyone, is between them and God. If it were left to us, some of those that say “did we not do these works in your Name” will get in, because we, regardless of how good a judge we think we may be, judge on outward signs and appearances, however God judges the heart.

So, while you may indeed be 100% correct in that all the evidence of how Hawkins lived would lead to conclusion of eternal damnation, we do not know what happened in those final minutes, seconds, even portions of a second. And that is all the time it takes to get things right with God. It does not matter if a person leads 1 or 1 million souls astray as long as they repeat and confess Him as Lord and believe in their heart... (you know the verse). So, while there is, as you said, no evidence to support that he did repent in those final moments, I say to you, there is also no evidence he did not repent in those moments as well. So, it is pointless to speculate on matters we know nothing of.

What we can say, and I think agree upon, is this.... Hawkins now knows there is a God, creator of all.

Well as I have said I don't know his eternal state or if he repented or not.

But there is no evidence that he did and we have his own testimony and his life's work that all say (HE SAID) he did not believe in God.

So if I have to judge then of course all I can go on is the man's own confession and beliefs, and according to them he died lost land without God.

SO if you want to put him in Heaven that is your choice but I cannot.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I think it is safest to believe that Hawking is in Hell.

I would prefer to be presently surprised, if he is in Heaven than to be disappointed by expecting to see him in Heaven and learning that he is definitely in Hell.

Furthermore, I think it is unwise to offer the living false hope in circumstances like this concerning the eternal fate of such persons. Such a course may lead others to believe that they can wait until they are in their final moment and get saved.

Hawking, by all accounts was given many opportunities, but hardened his neck. If the prover's principle is followed, he has been destroyed and cut off without remedy.

[branham1965]

That is your well learned opinion of course.



The Almighty Eternal God is Dr.Hawking's Judge in my opinion.

SAINT PAUL WROTE IN 1 CORINTHIANS 5:12-13 KJV

12 FOR WHAT HAVE I TO DO TO JUDGE THEM ALSO THAT ARE WITHOUT? Saint Paul said that.

DO YE NOT JUDGE THEM THAT ARE WITHIN?

13 BUT THEM THAT ARE WITHOUT GOD JUDGETH.

I think it is safest to believe that Hawking is in Hell.

I would prefer to be presently surprised, if he is in Heaven than to be disappointed by expecting to see him in Heaven and learning that he is definitely in Hell.

Furthermore, I think it is unwise to offer the living false hope in circumstances like this concerning the eternal fate of such persons. Such a course may lead others to believe that they can wait until they are in their final moment and get saved.

Hawking, by all accounts was given many opportunities, but hardened his neck. If the prover's principle is followed, he has been destroyed and cut off without remedy.

[luchnia]

1 Corinthians 5:10-11 (KJV)
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

I wonder if Hawkins was any of the things that are in verse 11? I don't ever picture the man being any of these as with many atheist. Not sure one can put him in verse 11 unless maybe he was an idolater? If so, can someone call out which part of verse 11 that you think he fits?

Atheist most often are not evil people by any stretch, so I find it difficult to apply this context to them - at least the ones I have known. They are mostly intellectual and not generally vile and evil. I find the ones I know to be very intelligent and more benevolent than most saints are.

[Grandfather]

SO if you want to put him in Heaven that is your choice but I cannot.

Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension? Seriously, I don't mean this as an insult but as a true and valid question? Perhaps it is the wording of my response that confuses you.

You see, I don't put Hawkins anywhere but before the throne of God, I haven't said or implied his eternal fate. I believe I've made it extremely clear that Hawkins fate, as mine and yours, rests in the hands of the Living God and He is not taking our opinion on the matter. So, please quit saying I want to put him anywhere, either in heaven or hell.

So, if you wish to damn him to Hell, then that is your OPINION and you are entitled to it. But the FACTS remain unchanged and unmoved by OPINION. And those FACTS tell us we do not know what transpired in those final moments. And the SCRIPTURE tells us that God is not willing that any should perish. (Funny how some are seemingly delighted that he perished) Scripture also tells us to think the best. (Funny how some are thinking and hoping for the worst.)

I am truly thankful that entry into Heaven is not based on anyone's OPINION other than HIS.

[branham1965]

I agree with you especially your last sentence.

1 Corinthians 5:10-11 (KJV)
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

I wonder if Hawkins was any of the things that are in verse 11? I don't ever picture the man being any of these as with many atheist. Not sure one can put him in verse 11 unless maybe he was an idolater? If so, can someone call out which part of verse 11 that you think he fits?

Atheist most often are not evil people by any stretch, so I find it difficult to apply this context to them - at least the ones I have known. They are mostly intellectual and not generally vile and evil. I find the ones I know to be very intelligent and more benevolent than most saints are.

[branham1965]

I agree with you Grandpa.

SO if you want to put him in Heaven that is your choice but I cannot.

Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension? Seriously, I don't mean this as an insult but as a true and valid question? Perhaps it is the wording of my response that confuses you.

You see, I don't put Hawkins anywhere but before the throne of God, I haven't said or implied his eternal fate. I believe I've made it extremely clear that Hawkins fate, as mine and yours, rests in the hands of the Living God and He is not taking our opinion on the matter. So, please quit saying I want to put him anywhere, either in heaven or hell.

So, if you wish to damn him to Hell, then that is your OPINION and you are entitled to it. But the FACTS remain unchanged and unmoved by OPINION. And those FACTS tell us we do not know what transpired in those final moments. And the SCRIPTURE tells us that God is not willing that any should perish. (Funny how some are seemingly delighted that he perished) Scripture also tells us to think the best. (Funny how some are thinking and hoping for the worst.)

I am truly thankful that entry into Heaven is not based on anyone's OPINION other than HIS.

[scottae316]

Very simple, God is the judge not us. In the moments before passing, a lot can (and does) happen. None of us were present at the side of Hawkins when he died. Did he repent and believe in Jesus? We don’t know. The original purpose of the post was a question, speculation, wondering, and/or what if. No where did he or anyone else state they knew or thought Hawkins repented. So for those implying that it was more than that, they should reread the original post, let it speak for itself (btw it clearly does) and stop adding to it or instigating and discuss the point of the post, period.

You mentioned rereading the original post.... GREAT idea. We all could learn something here about staying on topic.

Ironman original said: "Stephen Hawkins has died. He once said, “What I meant by ‘we would know the mind of God’ is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God. Which there isn't. I'm an atheist." I wonder how he reacted when he met Jesus face to face?"

As to how Hawkins reacted, I really couldn't say, I would assume with great distress and fear, but of course I do not know.

BUT as to how Jesus acted I think we know without doubt.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Leon,

We are in total agreement, the original post should be read to try to keep the replies on subject. I know because I read the original first post 97.9% of the time before replying. If I am replying to a comment on the original, I tend to use the quote feature (but at times I may be in a hurry or something and just reply). So the point of your post and how it relates to the OP eludes me, but that’s okay, this reply is off topic also.

[scottae316]

Well, we can argue Hawkins eternal fate and state as much as we want but until we get to heaven (assuming we are all believers here, yes, I know it’s bad to make assumptions) no one here can say they know with absolute certainty. Yes, he never made a public profession of faith, do we know what happened on his death bed, no I don’t believe anyone here personally knew Hawkins. We can speculate by what we know he publicly said in the past, but what he (or anyone for that fact) does alone knowing the end is near is between that person and the Lord. I have always thought we will be surprised by who we see in heaven and also surprised by those absent yet we were so sure they would be. I’m not in anyway saying I think Hawkins is, all the known evidence points to the opposite, but God works in mysterious ways sometimes.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Is private conversion possible after living publicly against God? He denied God before men and folks here expect him to be confessed before God?

What of finding a place of repentance? In some cases, it is not possible. Would not public denial require public confession?