Dake Bible Discussion BoardSupporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

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luchnia
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Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby luchnia » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:19 am

Often we find verses pulled out of context, or misused to force a doctrinal issue. One such verse is 2 Timothy 2:23. The famous verse that people will use when they struggle to prove something doctrinal. I sometimes think of this verse and verses like it as scapegoat verses.

Notice the instruction given in 2 Timothy 2:22-26
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Notice the verse states foolish and unlearned questions avoid. What are foolish and unlearned questions that would gender strife? Sound biblical reasoning nor refuting false doctrine fits into this category. The bible instructs clearly on sound doctrine and even commands the believer to know the methods the evil one travels (Eph 6:10-18).

In 1 Timothy 1:4 we have some clarification to the matter of what not to give heed to. As Dake put it, "anything delivered by word of mouth; legendary tales, as opposed to historical account; a fable; foolish or improbable story". Seems simple enough doesn't it? The challenge is that many prefer to use this instead of a rational supporting argument. Even Phillip proved Jesus!

1 Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Are we required to look into these things, or ignore them?:
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Look closely at verse 15. I like the questions that Dake ask about that concept, "Where are his ministers who are transformed as ministers of righteousness? Would they be in the churches or outside of them?"

When we accept great signs and wonders or anything and everything as from God, we are treading on dangerous ground. It is like one of the early prophets indicated, just because folks run around saying thus saith the Lord, the Lord has not said anything.


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby branham1965 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:47 am

luchnia i know you are talking to me.So i will answer you.



The sane Scriptural view is the manifestations of the Holy Ghost and the Gifts of the Spirit operating in the Church today.

But doing so according to the Scriptural parameters of the Word of God.

Reverend Dake taught this.


The Word and the Spirit must work together.

I found out yesterday that Brazil is now the largest Pentecostal Country on Earth.

Untold Millions have-and are being swept into the Kingdom of God there and all over this Earth because of the FULL GOSPEL MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST AS LORD ,SAVIOR, HEALER,BAPTIZER IN THE HOLY GHOST AND SOON COMING KING!!!THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIRMED BY SIGNS AND ATTENDED WONDERS.MARK 16:15-20,HEBREWS 2:3-4.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:58 pm

branham1965 wrote:I found out yesterday that Brazil is now the largest Pentecostal Country on Earth

Interesting.

How did you find this out?


    Isaiah 8:13 King James Version
      Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

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branham1965
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby branham1965 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:59 pm

These figures are available on line.


I heard a Pentecostal Preacher say it.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Thank you.

The figures I found for Brazil say that less than 7% of Brazilians are Pentecostal and that the population growth of Pentecostals has slowed in Brazil.

These numbers do not include Charismatics among Pentecostals, though.


    Isaiah 8:13 King James Version
      Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby branham1965 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:35 pm

Thank you for the information.

I cannot believe i forgot about the Charismatics.The two groups are quite a force around the world.

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Thank you.

The figures I found for Brazil say that less than 7% of Brazilians are Pentecostal and that the population growth of Pentecostals has slowed in Brazil.

These numbers do not include Charismatics among Pentecostals, though.



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luchnia
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby luchnia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:09 pm

branham1965 wrote:luchnia i know you are talking to me.So i will answer you.



The sane Scriptural view is the manifestations of the Holy Ghost and the Gifts of the Spirit operating in the Church today.

But doing so according to the Scriptural parameters of the Word of God.

Reverend Dake taught this.


The Word and the Spirit must work together.

I found out yesterday that Brazil is now the largest Pentecostal Country on Earth.

Untold Millions have-and are being swept into the Kingdom of God there and all over this Earth because of the FULL GOSPEL MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST AS LORD ,SAVIOR, HEALER,BAPTIZER IN THE HOLY GHOST AND SOON COMING KING!!!THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIRMED BY SIGNS AND ATTENDED WONDERS.MARK 16:15-20,HEBREWS 2:3-4.

Thanks for responding with your thoughts.

The post was for dealing with the scripture in question, not aimed at any one person as I don't really know anyone here. Keep in mind, I will almost always post to what words I see posted and not a person.

That scripture I posted is often taken out of context and used to refer to a discussion in a certain light that really does not support such. That is why I included the scriptures I did for supporting evidence against such reasoning. I would really like to see real manifestations as that would be something rare to see in today's world.

You make the point by stating, "But doing so according to the Scriptural parameters of the Word of God." That is the acid test and the only guideline indeed. In my mind, if it cannot pass through that, best disregard it.


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby branham1965 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:32 am

No offence meant.I thought you might be talking to the blockhead here so :mrgreen:

I think i understand what you are saying.

I remember my home Church that the Pastor and founder would pray for souls to be saved,bodies to be healed,miracles to be wrought and the chains of darkness broken over people in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The greatest strongest emphasis was put on souls.The Church was to pray at least an hour every Saturday night for the service on Sunday.Those were the days.

The Power of God also fell in the services too.

My late Pastor ministered the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ in over 48 Nations with Morris Cerullo and Dr.Alex W.Ness from Canada.
He wanted no part of being a Christian celebrity though he could have.He had a local radio program for 15 minutes. :angel: :angel: :angel:

He was hands down my all time favorite Preacher and teacher.To this day i have never heard anyone like him.He went Home in 2003.



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luchnia
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby luchnia » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:46 pm

I wonder how people view this where the disciples were afraid of Paul and in verse 29 Paul disputed with the Grecians. Paul was for lack of a better term on fire! I believe knowing Paul disputed with the Grecians is beneficial to us.

"26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. 27But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. 28And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

29And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. 30Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Supporting doctrinal arguments or taking the easy way out?

Postby branham1965 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:04 pm

:onfire:



luchnia wrote:I wonder how people view this where the disciples were afraid of Paul and in verse 29 Paul disputed with the Grecians. Paul was for lack of a better term on fire! I believe knowing Paul disputed with the Grecians is beneficial to us.

"26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. 27But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. 28And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

29And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. 30Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.




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