Dake Bible Discussion BoardPope wants to change the Lords prayer

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Ironman
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Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Ironman » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:10 pm

The Pope has revealed he wants to change the Lord's Prayer - as he thinks the current version implies that God pushes people toward sin. 
He said the line "lead us not into temptation", memorised by hundreds of millions of Christians for centuries, is based on a flawed translation.
"It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation," the Pope said.
The implication is awkward for Christians, who believe it is Satan who tempts people to sin.
"I am the one who falls. It's not him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen," the Pope explained.
"A father doesn't do that, a father helps you to get up immediately. It's Satan who leads us into temptation, that's his department."

The Pope's comments, made in an interview with Italian television, could lead to a change in the prayer, which is taken from the Bible and is considered by some to encapsulate the core messages of Christianity.
The current version has been used by the Catholic Church since 1966, when the Second Vatican Council decided modern vernacular should be used in services instead of Latin.
Before being translated from the Latin vulgate it was translated from ancient Greek. The original text was written in Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus.
Question marks over the temptation line are not new in Christian liturgical debate.
The Catholic Church in France voted to last month to change to a translation approximating "do not let us enter into temptation", and Church of latter-day saints uses the adapted line "suffer us not to be led into temptation".

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/po ... spartanntp


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by bibleman » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:39 pm

Ironman wrote:The Pope has revealed he wants to change the Lord's Prayer - as he thinks the current version implies that God pushes people toward sin. 
He said the line "lead us not into temptation", memorised by hundreds of millions of Christians for centuries, is based on a flawed translation.
"It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation," the Pope said.
The implication is awkward for Christians, who believe it is Satan who tempts people to sin.
"I am the one who falls. It's not him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen," the Pope explained.
"A father doesn't do that, a father helps you to get up immediately. It's Satan who leads us into temptation, that's his department."

The Pope's comments, made in an interview with Italian television, could lead to a change in the prayer, which is taken from the Bible and is considered by some to encapsulate the core messages of Christianity.
The current version has been used by the Catholic Church since 1966, when the Second Vatican Council decided modern vernacular should be used in services instead of Latin.
Before being translated from the Latin vulgate it was translated from ancient Greek. The original text was written in Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus.
Question marks over the temptation line are not new in Christian liturgical debate.
The Catholic Church in France voted to last month to change to a translation approximating "do not let us enter into temptation", and Church of latter-day saints uses the adapted line "suffer us not to be led into temptation".

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/po ... spartanntp
What are they going to do with this verse?

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Ironman » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:47 pm

They will probably want to change that as well saying Jesus could have stoped the devil from tempting Him :mrgreen:


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:02 am

Does God lead people into temptation, unless they daily ask Him not to?


"Behold, He cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."
— Revelation 1:7 (King James Version)

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by bibleman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:08 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Does God lead people into temptation, unless they daily ask Him not to?
I pray the Lord's prayer often.

Dr Cho teaches that there are 3 ways to learn.

The Word - Giving heed to and obeying the BIBLE
The Spirit - Giving heed to and obeying the Holy Ghost
Experience - The school of hard knocks and trials (temptation)

I try to learn the first 2 ways but when I miss it the the school of experience (temptation) is available.

And honestly the more I stay in the Word and the Spirit the less I go through temptation. +see


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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by branham1965 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:15 pm

:angel: Thanks for that.


bibleman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Does God lead people into temptation, unless they daily ask Him not to?
I pray the Lord's prayer often.

Dr Cho teaches that there are 3 ways to learn.

The Word - Giving heed to and obeying the BIBLE
The Spirit - Giving heed to and obeying the Holy Ghost
Experience - The school of hard knocks and trials (temptation)

I try to learn the first 2 ways but when I miss it the the school of experience (temptation) is available.

And honestly the more I stay in the Word and the Spirit the less I go through temptation. +see



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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:22 pm

bibleman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Does God lead people into temptation, unless they daily ask Him not to?
I pray the Lord's prayer often.

Dr Cho teaches that there are 3 ways to learn.

The Word - Giving heed to and obeying the BIBLE
The Spirit - Giving heed to and obeying the Holy Ghost
Experience - The school of hard knocks and trials (temptation)

I try to learn the first 2 ways but when I miss it the the school of experience (temptation) is available.

And honestly the more I stay in the Word and the Spirit the less I go through temptation. +see
That sounds good. The first two ways are definitely better ways to learn.

I think that the intent was that we ought to pray that prayer daily, since it contains a request for our daily bread for this day.

I don't see anything wrong with asking the Lord not to lead us into temptation. As you mentioned, above, the Spirit did lead Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted. If He would lead Jesus there for that purpose, why not us?

... which raises another question... If Jesus would have been daily praying that the Father would not lead Him into temptation, would the Spirit have done it?


"Behold, He cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."
— Revelation 1:7 (King James Version)

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by luchnia » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:31 pm

How is leading into temptation leading into sin? If we believe the scripture, God cannot lead anyone into sin. Maybe the pope should take up studying some so he can discern the Word of God. Oh, I forgot for a moment, if he learned to discern he would have to leave the catholic church +hammer


Word up!

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Ironman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:12 pm

When ever I am tempted I pray the Lords prayer and what ever the temptation, it leaves immediately.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Pope wants to change the Lords prayer

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:54 pm

Ironman wrote:When ever I am tempted I pray the Lords prayer and what ever the temptation, it leaves immediately.
:angel:


"Behold, He cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."
— Revelation 1:7 (King James Version)

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