Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

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Ironman
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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby Ironman » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:57 pm

branham1965 wrote:luchnia,



Can you please please please name a few Preachers whom you like and listen to???



To date you have not done so.

Personally I listen to Rev. Dake regularly and I also like listening to Dad Hagin, and Michael Youssef. He is on radio rema every night here at 7.30 pm. I catch him nearly every night.


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:42 pm

I should not have asked you that. :agrue:



luchnia wrote:
branham1965 wrote:CAN YOU NAME A JUST A FEW PREACHERS THAT YOU LIKE???

Since I don't hold a respect of preachers, I don't have a "liked" or "disliked" list. You can make up your own list for me and that will do just fine.

If there were a liked list then Jesus most of all and all of the Old Testament men of God, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, then Paul, Peter, Stephen, and so on. If there are favorites, those are at the top of the list.

As far as men born later, take your pick - I can glean nuggets out of most anything preached, even Mr. Anderson, your most loathed of preachers. I know he is your favorite - j/k :mrgreen:
Last edited by branham1965 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:44 pm

Those are some great Preachers.

I like Michael Youssef too.

Ironman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:luchnia,



Can you please please please name a few Preachers whom you like and listen to???



To date you have not done so.

Personally I listen to Rev. Dake regularly and I also like listening to Dad Hagin, and Michael Youssef. He is on radio rema every night here at 7.30 pm. I catch him nearly every night.



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branham1965
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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:46 pm

post removed.



luchnia wrote:
branham1965 wrote:luchnia


are there ANY men of God that you can say you listen to and respect??

Please answer.I get the impression that you do not like many Preachers....

luchnia wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.

____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.

Do you believe that signs and wonders have to follow a correct message? I am thinking that you are inferring that both signs and wonders must accompany a correct message, or the whole of the message is false? I have not thought much about that approach.

One thing is for sure after researching some of Branham's messages you find they were strewn with false doctrines. The trinity, serpent seed (eve being impregnated by satan physically), salvation, elijah, God visiting him, and on and on it goes.

I don't really look much at the sign and wonders bit. I simply weigh what is said against the Word and that is the litmus test.

I would like to know why it is a question of what preachers I listen to? What difference does that make and what does that have to do with this subject?

But for the sake of it, I respect any man of God. Over the years I have listened to many, many preachers, however these days I don't listen to many preachers at all (some local preachers), but spend most of the time listening to and studying God's word. I don't dislike any preachers. I admire the hard work that they do. It is a difficult and challenging job and I hold them in great respect.



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:12 pm

Every prominent Pentecostal Minister of his day confirmed that he was of God.Osborn,Roberts,Sumrall all said he was greatly used by the Lord.

But that he got into some odd doctrines.

yet he taught the Spoken Word and about confession and faith.

Ern Baxter became his manager after Gordon Lindsay.

He said on youtube that he and Brother Branham used to have discussions about doctrine.Brother Baxter said that Brother Branham deeply loved Jesus Christ and that his piety was without question....but that he was not a theologian.

I have heard Brother Branham say on cd at Angelus Temple in Los Angeles on 4/19/1959 that he had failed in so many ways.He shared it with his audience and wept.The Lord had told him he made a spectacle of himself on stage.He admitted he missed it in many many ways.


He was still called and chosen by the Lord from his birth to be a Minister of Divine Healing .

His power came from the Lord Jesus Christ.Not another source.

And i am done on this subject.It is upsetting me far too much to continue.

luchnia wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
luchnia wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.

____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.

Do you believe that signs and wonders have to follow a correct message? I am thinking that you are inferring that both signs and wonders must accompany a correct message, or the whole of the message is false? I have not thought much about that approach.

One thing is for sure after researching some of Branham's messages you find they were strewn with false doctrines. The trinity, serpent seed (eve being impregnated by satan physically), salvation, elijah, God visiting him, and on and on it goes.

I don't really look much at the sign and wonders bit. I simply weigh what is said against the Word and that is the litmus test.

Not that signs and wonders have to, but that they should only follow a correct message. When they accompany a message containing significant error, I think it is similar to Moses striking the rock when he ought not have. It is out of order and not done under proper authority.

Most of Branham's messages that I have listened to have contained significant error. You have listed a few of the errors that I have noticed.

Thanks. I was wondering. That insight is certainly worth looking deeper into. You know it is interesting you mention Moses as I was thinking about the magicians of Pharoah that Moses confronted. You know as I was researching Branham I found something rather interesting. A tiny few people weighed what he said against God's word.

Branham's message was accepted as God's pure word even if it wasn't and this was even by many prominent men that were labeled men of God. Many of these men were 100% behind him in his Elijah journey. Even though his prophecies failed, they esteemed him a prophet of God and attempted to raise him from the dead.

I found the whole thing very disturbing. It would be hard to doubt his agenda was sincere and many people were encouraged and grew through his messages. I think there was some gold nuggets in that aspect just as there are with some of our modern day speakers.

Consider this one - God needed Branham and charged him personally to be a second forerunner to Christ? Really? How is it that folks could not pick up their bibles and simply read for themselves? When these words were spoken the red flags should have went up everywhere. What is it with people that will not measure doctrines against what God has said?



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:26 am

branham1965 wrote:Every prominent Pentecostal Minister of his day confirmed that he was of God.Osborn,Roberts,Sumrall all said he was greatly used by the Lord.

He said on youtube that he and Brother Branham used to have discussions about doctrine.Brother Baxter said that Brother Branham deeply loved Jesus Christ and that his piety was without question....but that he was not a theologian.

The Lord had told him he made a spectacle of himself on stage.He admitted he missed it in many many ways.

He was still called and chosen by the Lord from his birth to be a Minister of Divine Healing .

His power came from the Lord Jesus Christ.Not another source.


It is probably best to address these statements one at a time as there is no sound rationale for any of them, only assumptions and conjecture.

"Every prominent Pentecostal Minister of his day confirmed that he was of God.Osborn,Roberts,Sumrall all said he was greatly used by the Lord."
>>>Many have confirmed that certain ones are of God, but that does not make it so. Look at the men of God that confirm Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, and so on. How is one confirmed of God? What is the scriptural basis for this assumption about Branham?

"He was still called and chosen by the Lord from his birth to be a Minister of Divine Healing."
>>>There is no evidence he was ever called and chosen by the Lord to do anything - absolutely none. Only his words about an messenger that did not even acknowledge Jesus, yet Branham at times said it was Jesus. Actually if you read his words, he said different things about the vision that contradict other of his very own statements.

Remember Joseph Smith received a message from a messenger that came forth from the presence of God and the messenger told Smith where the tablets were hid. Actually Joseph's Smith messenger was more accurate than Branham's so a better premise could be built upon Smith's message. He even told Joseph Smith his name - Moroni.

"His power came from the Lord Jesus Christ.Not another source."
>>>What power are you referring to? There is no evidence that Jesus had anything to do with any of his effort, but a messenger he saw that he claimed was from God, or was God depending on which version of his words you use.

"Brother Baxter said that Brother Branham deeply loved Jesus Christ and that his piety was without question....but that he was not a theologian."
>>>No doubt from all his effort he was pious, yet so was David Koresh and Charles Manson to their causes and even Charles Manson and Koresh both claimed they were Jesus. Koresh even ushered in the end.

It is probably true that Branham was a sincere individual and if you read and listen to him that seems obvious, yet again his doctrines are strewn with falsehood that cannot be ignored just as Bibleman stated earlier on. Focusing on the false doctrine is key and not Branham.

The fact that Branham was not a theologian is disturbing as Branham taught many doctrinal issues matter-of-fact to people that affected many thousands of lives (according to his supporters). How many came out of Branham's teachings believing he was the second runner of Christ and denying the trinity which we all know from scripture are false doctrines? His followers were so doctrinally confused that some of them attempted to raise him from the dead as Elijah.

We know he claimed he was the spokesperson and second runner of Christ because he said so. He did not hide that at all. Without any argument, you and I both know there was no second runner requirement for Christ.


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:29 pm

JOEL OSTEEN,BENNY HINN AND T.D.JAKES ARE GREAT PREACHERS WITH PROVEN MINISTRIES.

The Healing Revival Preachers i mentioned who respected Brother Branham were PROVEN Elders in the Church.


T.L.Osborn saw Jesus Christ in Brother Branham on the platform healing the sick.

This was tried to be explained away but he and his wife became Missionaries with POWER and great results because of Brother Branham.







Your comparing Brother Branham to Joseph Smith,David Koresh and Charles Manson is dead wrong and very dangerous. Matthew 12:31-32



Preachers did that up North about Reverend Ernest Angley.Some went in to Grace Cathedral or his meetings and they said that he was of the devil.Reverend Angley said that Preachers had blasphemed the Holy Ghost in his meetings.











luchnia wrote:
branham1965 wrote:Every prominent Pentecostal Minister of his day confirmed that he was of God.Osborn,Roberts,Sumrall all said he was greatly used by the Lord.

He said on youtube that he and Brother Branham used to have discussions about doctrine.Brother Baxter said that Brother Branham deeply loved Jesus Christ and that his piety was without question....but that he was not a theologian.

The Lord had told him he made a spectacle of himself on stage.He admitted he missed it in many many ways.

He was still called and chosen by the Lord from his birth to be a Minister of Divine Healing .

His power came from the Lord Jesus Christ.Not another source.


It is probably best to address these statements one at a time as there is no sound rationale for any of them, only assumptions and conjecture.

"Every prominent Pentecostal Minister of his day confirmed that he was of God.Osborn,Roberts,Sumrall all said he was greatly used by the Lord."
>>>Many have confirmed that certain ones are of God, but that does not make it so. Look at the men of God that confirm Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, and so on. How is one confirmed of God? What is the scriptural basis for this assumption about Branham?

"He was still called and chosen by the Lord from his birth to be a Minister of Divine Healing."
>>>There is no evidence he was ever called and chosen by the Lord to do anything - absolutely none. Only his words about an messenger that did not even acknowledge Jesus, yet Branham at times said it was Jesus. Actually if you read his words, he said different things about the vision that contradict other of his very own statements.

Remember Joseph Smith received a message from a messenger that came forth from the presence of God and the messenger told Smith where the tablets were hid. Actually Joseph's Smith messenger was more accurate than Branham's so a better premise could be built upon Smith's message. He even told Joseph Smith his name - Moroni.

"His power came from the Lord Jesus Christ.Not another source."
>>>What power are you referring to? There is no evidence that Jesus had anything to do with any of his effort, but a messenger he saw that he claimed was from God, or was God depending on which version of his words you use.

"Brother Baxter said that Brother Branham deeply loved Jesus Christ and that his piety was without question....but that he was not a theologian."
>>>No doubt from all his effort he was pious, yet so was David Koresh and Charles Manson to their causes and even Charles Manson and Koresh both claimed they were Jesus. Koresh even ushered in the end.

It is probably true that Branham was a sincere individual and if you read and listen to him that seems obvious, yet again his doctrines are strewn with falsehood that cannot be ignored just as Bibleman stated earlier on. Focusing on the false doctrine is key and not Branham.

The fact that Branham was not a theologian is disturbing as Branham taught many doctrinal issues matter-of-fact to people that affected many thousands of lives (according to his supporters). How many came out of Branham's teachings believing he was the second runner of Christ and denying the trinity which we all know from scripture are false doctrines? His followers were so doctrinally confused that some of them attempted to raise him from the dead as Elijah.

We know he claimed he was the spokesperson and second runner of Christ because he said so. He did not hide that at all. Without any argument, you and I both know there was no second runner requirement for Christ.



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:41 am

branham1965 wrote:Your comparing Brother Branham to Joseph Smith,David Koresh and Charles Manson is dead wrong and very dangerous. Matthew 12:31-32

Thanks for your thoughts on this and I hope in your studies you can add some things for consideration.

Joseph Smith has a well proven ministry and to date much larger than Branham's. LDS has over thirty thousand congregations with over fifteen MILLION members. There are not many Branhamites left now. A small number scattered about as it was not a lasting ministry. I think when folks saw he was not Elijah, among other things he said, that had a great affect on his followers.

Don't compare the men, but the message. Look at it this way. Compare Branham's message of his visitation with Joseph Smith's many visitations. Smith's is much more believable than Branham's and to top it off some of Smith's visions included other men that could confirm the visions were true. Smith had actual confirmation of visitations by a number of people whereas Branham had none.

Lay them both out side-by-side for comparison and study them. Some of smith's messengers spoke of Jesus and included Jesus whereas Branham's messenger never acknowledged Jesus at all. You see the point is if you believe one based on the information then you believe the other. Smith even saw John the Baptist and the words line up true by the scripture.

BTW, I believe both men were ignorant and taught many false doctrines even though their ministries were confirmed, supported by as you put it "men of God", and Smith's is going strong by the millions today, so it must be true, right?

>>>Joseph Smith, "I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other-This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

>>>As he prayed (Joseph Smith) that evening that he might know his standing before God, an angel appeared at his bedside, saying that he had been sent from the presence of God and that his name was Moroni. He explained "that God had a work for [Joseph] to do; and that [his] name should be had for good and evil among all nations"

>>>They (Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith) went into the woods to pray for enlightenment. Both record that a messenger from heaven, identifying himself as John the Baptist, laid hands on them and ordained them to the Aaronic Priesthood, saying, "Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness"


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:48 am

Ironman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:luchnia,



Can you please please please name a few Preachers whom you like and listen to???



To date you have not done so.

Personally I listen to Rev. Dake regularly and I also like listening to Dad Hagin, and Michael Youssef. He is on radio rema every night here at 7.30 pm. I catch him nearly every night.

I have spent quite some time listening to Dake over the years as I have him on MP3 player. He had a great ability to speak the KJV. I have listened to Hagin some in the past and read many of his books.


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:24 am

YOU ARE IN GRAVE ERROR COMPARING A GREAT PENTECOSTAL PREACHER WITH THE FELLOWS YOU MENTIONED.

William Branham served another God -Jehovah,another Christ -the Living Lord Jesus Christ ,He was led by another Spirit the Real Holy Ghost,and was used of God to bring souls into God's Kingdom ,to pray for the sick in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AND HE GAVE GOD THE GLORY.

YOU COMPARING HIM TO JOSEPH SMITH ...THAT IS ON YOU SIR. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:

YOU GUYS ARE NOT JUST SAYING HE MISSED IT AND GOT OFF ON SOME THINGS .NO YOU BOTH ARE SAYING HE WAS OF THE DEVIL FROM THE START.WOE WOE WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN HIS ANOINTED OF THE DEVIL.GOD SAYS TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED AND DO MY PROPHETS NO HARM.

I refuse to listen to it anymore in 2018.

luchnia wrote:
branham1965 wrote:Your comparing Brother Branham to Joseph Smith,David Koresh and Charles Manson is dead wrong and very dangerous. Matthew 12:31-32




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