Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

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luchnia
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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:08 am

branham1965 wrote:
People are supposed to believe in the power of God on here like Reverend Dake did.

I fully believe in the power of God and that all things are upheld by the Word of His power. Because I don't necessarily buy into a picture of a flame has nothing to do with my belief of God's power, but shows I am willing to discern as God has shown we are to.


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:38 pm

luchnia wrote:So that means you do accept the picture I posted in the forum some time back with the same fire on the man as being from God just as we see the fire in Branham's picture?


I think the question concerning the other picture, Luchnia, is this... Did the person in that picture have a ministry "vindicated" by signs and wonders?


    Isaiah 8:13 King James Version
      Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:41 pm

My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.



____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.


    Isaiah 8:13 King James Version
      Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

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branham1965
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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:08 pm

I do not feel a person must or even should believe that the picture in Houston was of God.

Of course i believe it was . Believe as your conscience tells you.



Do you believe Reverend Dake's testimony was true???

You read what i said.He received a DIVINE GIFT TO QUOTE SCRIPTURES HE NEVER HAD EVEN READ OR STUDIED.



ROGER DO YOU BELIEVE THIS OR NOT.

LUCHNIA DO YOU YOU BELIEVE HE HAD THAT GIFT OR NOT.



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:11 pm

You have no idea what you are talking about .I mean no idea.

NO IDEA.






Spiritblade Disciple wrote:My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.



____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.



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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby bibleman » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:34 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.
____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.


Hum...

I hear where you are coming from here: Confirming the word with signs and wonders - Mark 16:20 and others.

BUT what you have to remember is the bulk of Branham's false doctrine came in during the LAST part of his ministry... at a time when the confirming signs had began to disappear.

AND think about this too, if a sign or wonder (once given to a person) can be exercised even in a backslidden condition... then of course that sign or wonder would NOT confirm the message of the backslider.


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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:23 am

bibleman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:My issue is this... If Branham's ministry were truly "vindicated" by signs and wonders, then the doctrines that he taught (no matter how crazy) must be true. I cannot see a rational reason to think otherwise because the signs would confirm the Message that he preached was true.

Therefore, I must question legitimacy* of the signs, if I do not believe in his Message.
____
* Questioning the legitimacy of the signs does not necessarily mean that actual signs were not performed. On the contrary, the signs may have been real, but illegitimate.


Hum...

I hear where you are coming from here: Confirming the word with signs and wonders - Mark 16:20 and others.

BUT what you have to remember is the bulk of Branham's false doctrine came in during the LAST part of his ministry... at a time when the confirming signs had began to disappear.

AND think about this too, if a sign or wonder (once given to a person) can be exercised even in a backslidden condition... then of course that sign or wonder would NOT confirm the message of the backslider.

That's pretty much my point. The illegitimate use doesn't confirm false doctrine. And, I do agree that gifts can be exercised in a backslidden state.

As to the timing of the bulk of his false doctrine, I think there examples throughout his ministry of both false doctrines and falsehoods. As you say, though, it was worse towards the end.


    Isaiah 8:13 King James Version
      Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

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luchnia
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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:16 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
luchnia wrote:So that means you do accept the picture I posted in the forum some time back with the same fire on the man as being from God just as we see the fire in Branham's picture?


I think the question concerning the other picture, Luchnia, is this... Did the person in that picture have a ministry "vindicated" by signs and wonders?

I think we also have to consider that no man heals, it is faith that heals and no man converts, it is the reception of the Word that does so. Men do preach the message as Romans tells us. What vindicated Branham's ministry? Was it the word that he spoke or the healings that came from it? What vindicates any ministry? We must be cautious as healings do not validate any ministry or Peter Popoff and Benny Hinn would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

We know Jesus could not heal where there was no faith to be healed and could not save a man that would not be saved. The picture I posted was just a random picture I found on the net to make the point about the flame potentially being a gimmick or much worse.

I do not really know anything about the person in the picture. There seems to be some baroque paranormal things that were around Branham at times. There are TV shows today that chase those type of activities. Sadly, people are drawn to that type of stuff.

Branham could not have had the pillar of fire from God on him as it would have blinded him first then consumed him and as well he did not need a pillar of fire at night to guide him. That would have been foolish. If you look up the pillar of fire from God, it probably led thousands by night and nothing in the scripture indicates that it was some tiny fire that could rest on or around any man as the picture shows with Branham. Again we have no scriptural evidence of any such thing.

If the fire that we see in the picture with Branham was real and not a fake there is no telling what it was. It could have been manifested from a number of sources. It really seems much like a magician's trick. The recorded facts that Branham's presumed angelic messenger that came to him as a child did not even as much as mention Jesus sours the entire story in my book.

My rationale with this type of stuff is, if it cannot be supported by God's word, nothing much there. The words of an individual must be proved against God's word. What did Paul have to prove in his ministry? He had to prove that Jesus died and rose again from the scriptures. Healing was merely a glorious by product of one's faith!


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby luchnia » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:35 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:As to the timing of the bulk of his false doctrine, I think there examples throughout his ministry of both false doctrines and falsehoods. As you say, though, it was worse towards the end.

This is certainly worth reasoning out. Think about Peter again. What if it had been a longer time frame from when Paul opposed him than had occurred? Peter indeed could have fallen to falsehood to do the wrong thing. If he had of continued down that path and preached false doctrine then that doctrine out of ignorance would have been false and not of Christ, however, this all played out perfectly and Peter yet again realized it is Christ the Head by faith and not ordinances - purified by faith indeed!

In my meagerly view, I think many today are not lifting up the servant Jesus in the Head position and KEEP that focus and this is what hurts them. I think they attempt to be the Head. One can easily read through many of Branham's messages and see false doctrine strewn throughout, especially the Elijah thing.

Those men that stuck around the grave praying to raise Branham from the dead - really? - moths to a flame of destruction! Does that mean that his agenda was bad? That is something I cannot state, but what we can see is that he was ignorant about God's word in many ways, which I am first to claim my ignorance. About 35 years ago I thought I knew something and all these years later I realize how little I do know.

I remember going to a small church once that I knew the preacher preached more garbage than one can imagine, yet I saw a man get saved there and it astonished me, but then I knew that his heart was pricked by a tiny fragment of God's word that came forth from the pulpit that day and godly sorrow led him to repentance.


Word up!

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Re: The Pillar of Fire over William Branham's head

Postby branham1965 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:10 am

:| HERE ARE 2 BOOKS FROM NEUTRAL AND FAIR SOURCES FOR INTERESTED STUDENTS

BOOK 1- IS "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE :THE MODERN HEALING AND CHARISMATIC REVIVALS IN MODERN AMERICA" BY DAVID EDWIN HARRELL JR.PROFESSOR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES AT AUBURN UNIVERSITY .

BOOK 2- THE HEALER- PROPHET =Brother Branham is on the cover with the Pillar of Fire over his head (A STUDY OF THE PROPHETIC IN AMERICAN PENTECOSTALISM) BY C.DOUGLAS WEAVER THE FOREWARD BY DAVID EDWIN HARRELL JR. PROFESSOR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES AUBURN UNIVERSITY.




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