Dake Bible Discussion BoardJohn Wycliffe

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Ironman
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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Ironman » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:22 pm

The popes believe they are Christ on earth?

Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi), a title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs... Feed my sheep" (John, xxi, 16, 17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matt. xvi, 18, 19. In the course of ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "` Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/vicar-of-Christ

The title Holy Father is also an insult to Our Father in Heaven. Jesus called His Father and our Father Holy Father in Scripture only once;

John 17:11, And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. In fact Jesus also says in Scripture;

Matthew 23:9, And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The catholic church seems to think they can do what they like with the Word of God, in fact they do exactly as they please with God's Word. If you study the catholic church system you will see that the Pope when he is on his throne is considered the mouth of GOD.  Whatever he says or does is believed to come directly from GOD and the comparison to GOD follows.  Why do you think they call their priest father?  It is not because they are parents but it is a reference to the Father GOD in the bible.
"Our Father......."  It is a way to elevate the priesthood to a deity type status and control all their followers.  How do you think they claim to have the power to forgive sins or call Christ down from heaven in the Eucharist.  Don't forget that for centuries the Catholic church made it a crime to own a bible.  You had to depend solely upon the church to hear about GOD.  Again all about control.  Calling the Pope Holly Father is the same physiological manipulative tool to get people to submit.

Why do you say I spread lies about this church and why do you keep defending this alleged church and its practices of which I have outlined many, and once took part of SPD?


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:13 am

Ironman wrote:
"Accusing me of avoiding the question is poor form, Haz."


So I cannot prove they were married just as you cannot prove they were not. I quoted Hislop, you believe anti Hislop.

And, if Hislop's points can't be proven, they carry zero weight in the discussion.


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:30 am

Ironman wrote:This does not in any way prove the RCC has not been built o pagan customs and traditions of men headed by a pope who they claim is "VICAR," Christ on earth.

But, you haven't provided any proof that the RCC is built on pagan customs. Similarities don't prove anything.

And your issue with the term 'vicar' isn't as serious as you seem to think it is. Whenever any Christian prays in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are acting as His vicar. However, acting as His vicar doesn't prove you are His vicar. To genuinely be His vicar would mean to genuinely have His authority. See Dake on the Christian's Power of Attorney.

A bishop is supposed to rule is flock. For those that believe the Pope is the Supreme bishop, the RCC position concerning the Pope makes sense. The question is whether or not the RCC is who they claim to be. If they are, then the Pope is who they claim he is.

You claim the RCC isn't the genuine church. Do you believe that it ever was?


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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Ironman
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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Ironman » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:59 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Ironman wrote:This does not in any way prove the RCC has not been built o pagan customs and traditions of men headed by a pope who they claim is "VICAR," Christ on earth.

But, you haven't provided any proof that the RCC is built on pagan customs. Similarities don't prove anything.

And your issue with the term 'vicar' isn't as serious as you seem to think it is. Whenever any Christian prays in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are acting as His vicar. However, acting as His vicar doesn't prove you are His vicar. To genuinely be His vicar would mean to genuinely have His authority. See Dake on the Christian's Power of Attorney.

A bishop is supposed to rule is flock. For those that believe the Pope is the Supreme bishop, the RCC position concerning the Pope makes sense. The question is whether or not the RCC is who they claim to be. If they are, then the Pope is who they claim he is.

You claim the RCC isn't the genuine church. Do you believe that it ever was?


No I never did even as a young man, and never will.

When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for false doctrines to creep into the early Christian Church, and they were gradually introduced into the system. The Church became divided into the Catholic Church who accepted the pagan doctrines, and the true Christian Church who resisted Constantine’s indoctrination.

Virtually all symbols of sun worship exist in present-day Roman Catholic cathedrals. St. Peter’s in Rome has one of the greatest collection of pagan symbols in the world. The main altar at St. Peter’s, Bernini’s Canopy, has the symbols of the serpent, sun and moon worship, and male and female forms of sun rays. The altar has Pope Joane (the only female pope in history) depicted in pains of childbirth representing the birth of the sun god. Other symbols of sun worship found in Catholicism include the solar wheel dating back to the time of the Chaldeans. It is found on virtually all cathedrals today. The square of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome consists of the largest solar wheel in the world. The square is circular and the wheel has eight spokes. Moreover, in St. Peter’s Square, there is a wheel within a wheel, which is a counterfeit of the mobile throne of God, as described by the prophet Ezekiel. As a counterfeit, it represents the throne of the Dragon who gives the Beast his seat and great authority. In the center of the square is an obelisk, a phallic symbol dedicated to the worship of the sun. The Vatican is built on the hill where the temple of Janus the sun god stood. Alongside St. John’s Lateran, which is the church where the Pope is crowned and where he speaks infallibly, is the obelisk of Tutmoses III, which was dedicated to Reharakti, the sun god. Many other symbols of sun worship are used in Catholicism, such as halos, pagan crosses, lightning bolts, hand-signals from sun worship cults, tridents, the fleur-de-lis, and sexagesimal triangles with the eye of Horus.

Coptic shells, which in paganism served as a symbol of the cosmos, were also used, along with astrological signs. Globes serve as symbols of rulership of the universe, and pagan gods carried the globe. The largest globe in the world is on top of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome.
The Catholic Church also uses sacred heart symbols, sacred animal symbols, and fertility symbols such as pine cones. Pagan deities wore the pine cone on their crosier just as the popes do today. Catholics also use prayer beads for repetitive prayers, even though the Bible admonishes, “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” (Matthew 6:7).

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND THIS PAGAN CHURCH? Are you converting?


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Ironman
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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Ironman » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:20 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Ironman wrote:
"Accusing me of avoiding the question is poor form, Haz."


So I cannot prove they were married just as you cannot prove they were not. I quoted Hislop, you believe anti Hislop.

And, if Hislop's points can't be proven, they carry zero weight in the discussion.


And if Hislop's points cannot be disproved they prove the catholic church is of pagan origan. Any normal bible believing Christian with an honest and open heart only has to live as a catholic for a few months to see just how ungodly this church is. I lived it for many years, and it was not until I purchased a KJV Bible and read it for myself that I realised what I was thinking about this church was true. Its built on fear, lies, and pagan traditions, its riddled with paganism just like a deadly cancer.

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND THIS PAGAN CHURCH? Are you converting or do you belong to it?


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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branham1965
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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby branham1965 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:32 pm

Roger

HAZ is quoting CATHOLIC DOCTRINE.This is what they believe.You and i can deny it until Doomsday.Its so.

I was raised Catholic and my family is Catholic.They call the Pope Holy Father.Jesus called God Holy Father.And i know many great people who are Catholic.My buddy Joe and my Uncles come to mind.My family in the RCC are goood folks.Some were not.

Mr. Hislop was not wrong .The Church was wrong butchering millions in the Papal Inquisitions.
The Reformers all believed the Papacy to be Antichrist and the Papacy as the the man of sin.




Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Ironman wrote:
"Accusing me of avoiding the question is poor form, Haz."


So I cannot prove they were married just as you cannot prove they were not. I quoted Hislop, you believe anti Hislop.

And, if Hislop's points can't be proven, they carry zero weight in the discussion.
Last edited by branham1965 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby branham1965 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:34 pm

haz
I KNOW you are teaching the truth about the RCC. :angel: :angel:


Ironman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Ironman wrote:This does not in any way prove the RCC has not been built o pagan customs and traditions of men headed by a pope who they claim is "VICAR," Christ on earth.

But, you haven't provided any proof that the RCC is built on pagan customs. Similarities don't prove anything.

And your issue with the term 'vicar' isn't as serious as you seem to think it is. Whenever any Christian prays in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are acting as His vicar. However, acting as His vicar doesn't prove you are His vicar. To genuinely be His vicar would mean to genuinely have His authority. See Dake on the Christian's Power of Attorney.

A bishop is supposed to rule is flock. For those that believe the Pope is the Supreme bishop, the RCC position concerning the Pope makes sense. The question is whether or not the RCC is who they claim to be. If they are, then the Pope is who they claim he is.

You claim the RCC isn't the genuine church. Do you believe that it ever was?


No I never did even as a young man, and never will.

When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for false doctrines to creep into the early Christian Church, and they were gradually introduced into the system. The Church became divided into the Catholic Church who accepted the pagan doctrines, and the true Christian Church who resisted Constantine’s indoctrination.

Virtually all symbols of sun worship exist in present-day Roman Catholic cathedrals. St. Peter’s in Rome has one of the greatest collection of pagan symbols in the world. The main altar at St. Peter’s, Bernini’s Canopy, has the symbols of the serpent, sun and moon worship, and male and female forms of sun rays. The altar has Pope Joane (the only female pope in history) depicted in pains of childbirth representing the birth of the sun god. Other symbols of sun worship found in Catholicism include the solar wheel dating back to the time of the Chaldeans. It is found on virtually all cathedrals today. The square of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome consists of the largest solar wheel in the world. The square is circular and the wheel has eight spokes. Moreover, in St. Peter’s Square, there is a wheel within a wheel, which is a counterfeit of the mobile throne of God, as described by the prophet Ezekiel. As a counterfeit, it represents the throne of the Dragon who gives the Beast his seat and great authority. In the center of the square is an obelisk, a phallic symbol dedicated to the worship of the sun. The Vatican is built on the hill where the temple of Janus the sun god stood. Alongside St. John’s Lateran, which is the church where the Pope is crowned and where he speaks infallibly, is the obelisk of Tutmoses III, which was dedicated to Reharakti, the sun god. Many other symbols of sun worship are used in Catholicism, such as halos, pagan crosses, lightning bolts, hand-signals from sun worship cults, tridents, the fleur-de-lis, and sexagesimal triangles with the eye of Horus.

Coptic shells, which in paganism served as a symbol of the cosmos, were also used, along with astrological signs. Globes serve as symbols of rulership of the universe, and pagan gods carried the globe. The largest globe in the world is on top of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome.
The Catholic Church also uses sacred heart symbols, sacred animal symbols, and fertility symbols such as pine cones. Pagan deities wore the pine cone on their crosier just as the popes do today. Catholics also use prayer beads for repetitive prayers, even though the Bible admonishes, “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” (Matthew 6:7).

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND THIS PAGAN CHURCH? Are you converting?



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:56 pm

Ironman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Ironman wrote:
"Accusing me of avoiding the question is poor form, Haz."


So I cannot prove they were married just as you cannot prove they were not. I quoted Hislop, you believe anti Hislop.

And, if Hislop's points can't be proven, they carry zero weight in the discussion.


And if Hislop's points cannot be disproved they prove the catholic church is of pagan origan.

What you refuse to accept is that Hislop has been disproven, whether you accept it or not.


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:00 pm

Ironman wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:You claim the RCC isn't the genuine church. Do you believe that it ever was?


No I never did even as a young man, and never will.

To me, this invalidates any weight your claims concerning ever belonging to the RCC might have had on the discussion.


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: John Wycliffe

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:06 pm

Ironman wrote:St. Peter’s... The altar has Pope Joane (the only female pope in history) depicted in pains of childbirth representing the birth of the sun god.

Seriously?

The absurdity of this claim absolutely destroys any credibility you may have had on the issue. Please, at least google such claims before making them to see if any serious historians believe that they are true. You ought to be more careful. Such claims only show that you are not serious about truth.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... nt-go-away


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —


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