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olindquist
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby olindquist » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:03 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:You may or may not find this interesting.

Tim Staples wrote:The construction of the Greek text of Ephesians 2:8-9 makes clear that both grace and faith are entirely unmerited. Many Protestants are shocked to discover this is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches—and baptizes babies to prove it. How much more can the Church do to demonstrate this truth? What kind of works could a newborn baby have done to merit anything? However, once that baby grows up and reaches the age of accountability, he must begin to "work out [his] own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in [him], both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil 2:12-13). Or, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:10: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."


More at: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... ork-it-out


I believe there is a difference between the faith of Christ and faith in Christ. The unmerited grace and faith in Ephesians 2:8-9 occurs after one puts their faith in Christ. Romans 12:3 says we(believers) have been given the measure of faith. Paul wrote he lives by the faith of Christ in Gal. 2:20. (That's why I thing King James translation is important-Not all translations say faith of Christ). Our job now is to grow that faith. We go from faith to faith which is working out our own salvation.

I believe those in the O.T. lived by faith in Christ that was to come and 1 of the 9 gifts of the Spirit called the gift of faith. We as N.T. believers have the faith of Christ inside. My scripture reference would be Galatians 3:23-25. "but after faith is come."

Romans 4:16 " Therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace.." God's grace always comes by faith.



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branham1965
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby branham1965 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Mate you are the man.You tell it like it is.I have always admired your straightforward no bulldung approach. :angel:

+lol :lol!:



Ironman wrote:From Catholic answers; Catholic Answers: Infant Baptism.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/infant-baptism

Quote, ["Fundamentalists should be asked, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said "let them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?"]

That statement in Matthew 19:14, by Jesus had nothing to do with baptising the children about Him. Some people were wanting Jesus to lay His hands upon their children, but the disciples rebuked them. It was then Jesus said;
V.14, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
V. 15, And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

Jesus laid His hands on them, and departed. Jesus never baptized them, or told His disciples to baptise them. The laying of hands on people and children is an outward form of blessing in both Testaments The laying on of hands on the sick to heal and to bless men is a practice of both Testaments (Gen. 48:14; Num. 8:10; 27:23; Dt. 34:9; Matt. 19:15; Mark 5:23; 6:2, 5; Luke 4:40; 13:13; Acts 5:12; 13:3; 14:3; 19:11; 28:8; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6; Heb. 6:2). No mention of baptizing infants or children under the age of reason mentioned in one of these many Scriptures.

Infant baptism is a catholic tradition, nothing more. It was introduced by them to bind the brethren and their children to their church.

I was baptized, (Had water dribbled on my forehead), in 1947 while piddling or pooing in my nappy.  I was truly baptized by immersion as an adult at age 43.

Can anyone tell me of one instant where an infant, a baby, would come go to a stranger when called? Every infant baptism I have witnessed, and I have witnessed many as an alter boy, mostly done after mass, and as an adult throughout my life in the catholic church, where the baby, the infant was introduced to the priest, and then during the sprinkling of water on their foreheads, they waved their arms about, kicked with their legs, and screamed their heads off. It usually took the mother ten to twenty minutes to calm them.

Infant baptism is a farce and a waste of time. Children under the age of accountability are saved (Matthew 18:1-10; 19:14). The exact age of accountability is not mentioned in Scripture
Last edited by branham1965 on Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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branham1965
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby branham1965 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:36 pm

That is a great post Macca. :angel: :angel: :angel:



macca wrote:It is called the new birth because it is being born anew, being begotten again by the Holy Spirit into God's family.
2 cor.5:17-18;
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a NEW CREATION (a new creature altogether) (a new species of being), old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.
Now all things are of God, Who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ.

I knew I was changed in the few hours afterwards, because, I was a new person entirely who loved Jesus.
Now to keep this experience alive I had to feed on the Living Word (Jesus our tree of life John.6:63:)
My soul had to be saved from all the years living like the devil (James. 1:21;)
I had to stay away from the enemies of my spirit and soul, not only in the world but also in the church world. That includes what I watch, hear and read.

We must be full of the Word of God so as the Holy Spirit has something to work with in helping us.

macca



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:15 pm

olindquist wrote:I believe there is a difference between the faith of Christ and faith in Christ. The unmerited grace and faith in Ephesians 2:8-9 occurs after one puts their faith in Christ.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7116&start=10#p91997

Hi, Olindquist,

This sounds confusing, to me. What I'm understanding you to be saying is that unmerited grace and faith are merited by putting one's faith in Christ. Essentially, that which is unmerited is merited, which seems nonsensical to me.

Please, explain.


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:15 pm

olindquist wrote:Romans 12:3 says we(believers) have been given the measure of faith. Paul wrote he lives by the faith of Christ in Gal. 2:20. (That's why I thing King James translation is important-Not all translations say faith of Christ). Our job now is to grow that faith. We go from faith to faith which is working out our own salvation.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7116&start=10#p91997

Interesting. How important do you think the Old King James Version is? Would you agree that it is it is the preserved, inspired, inerrant, absolute, and infallible, Word of God? Or, is it just a better translation from among a set of faulty tranlsations?


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:16 pm

olindquist wrote:I believe those in the O.T. lived by faith in Christ that was to come and 1 of the 9 gifts of the Spirit called the gift of faith. We as N.T. believers have the faith of Christ inside. My scripture reference would be Galatians 3:23-25. "but after faith is come."

Romans 4:16 " Therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace.." God's grace always comes by faith.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7116&start=10#p91997

At this point, I think I'm understanding you to be saying that Old Testament saints were not saved by grace through faith, but rather by faith through grace.

Is that right?


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

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macca
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby macca » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:54 pm

Even Jesus, as a child, had to come to his own understanding between good and evil.......Isa.7:14-15;
Then choose which one he would follow.

All children's spirits are open to God up to that point of actual choice, if good, they will go on to faith in Jesus,,,,
if bad, they will follow after the world and live in condemnation until they find Jesus, or reject Jesus..
macca


For ALL the promises of God in Him are YES, and in Him AMEN, unto the glory of God by us.

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:37 am

And, even as a baby, Jesus needed to be presented to the Lord (Luke 2:21—39).


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —

olindquist
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby olindquist » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:31 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
olindquist wrote:I believe there is a difference between the faith of Christ and faith in Christ. The unmerited grace and faith in Ephesians 2:8-9 occurs after one puts their faith in Christ.
http://dakebibleboard.com/viewtopic.php ... =10#p91997

Hi, Olindquist,

This sounds confusing, to me. What I'm understanding you to be saying is that unmerited grace and faith are merited by putting one's faith in Christ. Essentially, that which is unmerited is merited, which seems nonsensical to me.

Please, explain.


I apologize about delay in responding, time in front of computer has been hard to come by recently.

I'll explain the best I can.

1) Faith of Christ - Something I came across while meditating the scriptures that refer to it.

Ephesians 3:12 - In whom(Christ) we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him (Christ).
Before Christ rose again the way into the holiest was not yet accessible.( Heb. 8:8 ) Those in the O.T. could not come boldly to the throne of Grace like we can now.( Heb. 4:16-17)

Also read Galatians 3:23-25 and Romans 3:30-31

In 2 Cor 4:13 it is called the spirit of faith. This perhaps ties into John 20:21-21 when Jesus breathed on the disciples to receive the Holy Spirit before Pentecost.

2) All benefits of salvation comes by faith in grace whether in old or new testament. The definition for grace of unmerited favor is good but incomplete. The bible says we can fall from grace and God gives grace to the humble. If it was just unmerited favor it would be for everyone with no responsibility on our part to partake of it.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: THE NEW BIRTH

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:25 am

What Bible version are you using, Olindquist?

Above, you mentioned the importance of the KJV. But the passage you reference as Heb. 8:8 sounds closer to 9:8 in my KJV. And, my KJV does not have Hebrews 4:17.


    THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH
      And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of Hell and of Death."
        — Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version —


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