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olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Yes, if one continues in adultery without repentance.



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bibleman
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:Yes, if one continues in adultery without repentance.
Thanks for your response.

But let's clarify.

If a person commits adultery ONE time... and does NOT confess or repent.

Is that person under the death penalty of sin?


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Knowing God's character of mercy and longsuffering, I would say no because I believe the Holy Spirit would try to bring conviction. So I believe it would it either have to be repetitive acts of adultery or one time and the person never repents after continual prompting of the Holy Spirit thru inner witness, the Word, or another person.



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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:Knowing God's character of mercy and longsuffering, I would say no because I believe the Holy Spirit would try to bring conviction. So I believe it would it either have to be repetitive acts of adultery or one time and the person never repents after continual prompting of the Holy Spirit thru inner witness, the Word, or another person.
OK you say that one act of sin does not damn the soul.

With that kind of thinking it is OK to:

Kill someone ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!
BURN a baby alive in gasoline ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!
BEAT your wife until she dies ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!
Commit adultery ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!
Rob a Bank ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!
Take a hammer and pound a 16 penny nail through the ears of your children ONE TIME without repenting and still go to Heaven!

Now you know the Bible does not teach that. For a person to go to Heaven he must be cleansed and forgiven of all his sin. There is no place in Heaven or adulterers.

Read the following - It is so simple if you have an open mind to the Word of God.

One sin is sufficient to damn a soul. One sin cut the whole race off from God: “By one man sin entered into the world . . . by one man's offense death reigned . . . by the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation . . . by one man's disobedience many were made [constituted] sinners” (Rom. 5:12-21; Gen. 2:17; 3:1-19). One sin, whether committed before or after a person is saved, will have the same effect that the one original sin had. “When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity . . . All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned . . . in the sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die . . . for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die” (Ezek. 18:24-26). Again, “The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression . . . for the iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it” (Ezek. 33:12-20).

One sin cursed “the whole race” (Rom. 5:12-21); “Cain” (Gen. 4:8-13; 1 Jn. 3:12); “Pharaoh and Egypt” (Exod. 3:2; Rom. 9:15-23); “Nadab and Abihu” (Lev. 10:1-7); “Achan” (Josh. 7); “Gehazi” (2 Ki. 5:20-27); “Judas” (Acts 1:25); “Ananias and Sapphira” (Acts 5:1-11); and many others (1 Tim. 1:19-20; 2:14; 5:11-12, 15, 20; 6:10; 2 Tim. 2:18, 26; 4:10; Heb. 4:11; 1 Cor. 10:1-18; Jas. 2:10; etc.).

One sin caused Lucifer and one-third of the angels to fall, as well as the pre-Adamic race that Lucifer ruled over (Isa. 14:12-14; See Lesson Seven). One sin caused angels to be sent to Hell (2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6-7).

God revealed that one sin would cut men off from Him. This is His own law and He cannot be just and truthful if He does not enforce it (Gen. 2:17; Ezek. 3:18-21; 18:4, 13, 18, 20, 24, 26; 33:9, 12-13, 18; Jn. 8:34; Rom. 6:23; 8:12-13; Gal. 6:7-8; Jas. 2:10; 1 Jn. 3:8). Many times God promised to “cut off” any man that committed certain sins (Gen. 17:14; Exod. 9:15; 12:15, 19; 30:23, 38; 31:14; Lev. 7:20-21, 25, 27; 17:4-14; 18:29; 19:8; 20:3-18; 22:3; 23:29; Num. 9:13; 15:30-31; 19:13, 20; Ezek. 14:8; Mal. 2:12; Rom. 11:22, 24). The phrase “cut off” means “destroyed in death” and “cut off from my presence” (Lev. 22:3; Ps. 109:13-15; Zech. 13:8; Mt. 24:51; Lk. 12:46; Rom. 11:22-24).

Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 425.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Thanks for taking the time to have discussion. Your last response adds more confusion to our discussion because of your prior statements that not all sins are death penalty sins and that not all sin is the same. I'm going to stick with my conclusion from my 3rd response that eternal security is based on one walking in obedience to the light he has received, obeying his conscience, and being totally consecrated to do all the Word of God. I thought those last examples were extreme. Christianity is all about the motives of the heart and I am not of the belief that a one time sin will damn the soul unless it is premeditated and one willfully knowing it is wrong and then never repents. My concern with the present day church is that there is a list of certain only death penalty sins and the other sins that are committed will be over looked at time of judgment. That is what I think is dangerous. More of a lifestyle of so called acceptable christian sins when Jesus gave us victory over all sin. That is the good news of the gospel. Thanks again for the discussion and I will let others weigh in on the discussion. God Bless.



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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:Thanks for taking the time to have discussion. Your last response adds more confusion to our discussion because of your prior statements that not all sins are death penalty sins and that not all sin is the same. I'm going to stick with my conclusion from my 3rd response that eternal security is based on one walking in obedience to the light he has received, obeying his conscience, and being totally consecrated to do all the Word of God. I thought those last examples were extreme. Christianity is all about the motives of the heart and I am not of the belief that a one time sin will damn the soul unless it is premeditated and one willfully knowing it is wrong and then never repents. My concern with the present day church is that there is a list of certain only death penalty sins and the other sins that are committed will be over looked at time of judgment. That is what I think is dangerous. More of a lifestyle of so called acceptable christian sins when Jesus gave us victory over all sin. That is the good news of the gospel. Thanks again for the discussion and I will let others weigh in on the discussion. God Bless.
The Bible teaches that when a person murders someone and does not repent of that murder - for that sin of murder he is on his way to Hell if he does not repent. That is the teaching of the Bible.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now you don't have to believe the Bible - that is your choice. But you would be much better off id you did.

AFTER all the Bible still says, whether you believe it or not.... "For the wages of sin is death;" Romans 6:23


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Based upon your last response I feel it needful to clarify on one issue where I feel things got twisted and that you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. In other words you're missing the whole thrust of my post.

Here's where I want to clarify things. Your question about adultery with out confession and repentance is that person under the death penalty? I was thinking of a scenario in my head of a person leaving that act (adultery) and getting into a fatal accident (I apologize that you had no way of knowing that I was thinking that). I believe God in His mercy would be trying to bring conviction from the time of the act to the accident. If that person would not repent then yes he is under the death penalty. But the whole theme of my post is a lifestyle of any sin not just a special list. It's interesting that you ended with the scripture in Romans 6:23 that I started with.

Here's my beef with our whole discussion. It seemed you wanted to prove your point without really paying attention to what was written. And because of your contradictions you got off track from the main theme. It's hard to have a constructive discussion when somebody is more concerned about him/her being right than what is right.

Here is my summary of points from this topic. Which I hope you (bibleman) and others judge and let the Word and Holy Spirit bring truth in these areas.

1) I believe with Dake that one can be born again, lose it and incur the death penalty, and repeat this many times with true repentance and then yielding to sin again.
2) I do not agree that there is just a certain list of death penalty sins that incur the death penalty and one can sin in other areas without repentance and not incur the death penalty.
3) I do believe that there are certain levels of judgements in hell and rewards in heaven for levels of obedience or disobedience. Eternal rewards and punishment.
4) That Jesus came to take care of the inbred sin problem and gave us victory over all forms of sin throughout life. That is great news!
5) Eternal security is based on one walking in the light as he receives it, obey ones conscience, and consecrate to obey the whole word of God as he receives it.
From those statements if you feel I still don't believe the bible I guess we have to agree to disagree.



olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Bibleman I apologize and ask for your forgiveness for the harsh statement of you wanting to be right more than what is right. My attitude was wrong and one cannot really know what a person is feeling just from a discussion in writing. I do believe you want to know what is right and you are full of the wisdom of God.



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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:Bibleman I apologize and ask for your forgiveness for the harsh statement of you wanting to be right more than what is right. My attitude was wrong and one cannot really know what a person is feeling just from a discussion in writing. I do believe you want to know what is right and you are full of the wisdom of God.
No problem at all.... Please know that Biblical discussion have very little to do with our relationship as brothers in Christ. No problem.

The real problem is this, let's say on the adultery issue.

If you think God gives someone time to repent BEFORE incurring the death penalty, then how long?

So would we think about it like this??? "The wages of sin is death. But for some people it is right away and for others a may be weeks or even years before they will incur the death penalty - Just depends on when God decides to say it is a death penalty."

I would disagree with that thinking. God is no respecter of persons. The moment someone commits a death penalty sin such as murder or adultery they incur the death penalty at that time.

If not then when would they incur the death penalty? - And what Scripture says that God waits some time on some and some other time on others before sin is really sin????

See the problem?


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Thanks for forgiving me. I'd like to for a moment not to just focus on adultery as a sin that incurs the death penalty so I can respond to the reasoning of your last post.
With the Scriptures that you previously quoted from dake as ones that incur the death penalty there is quite a list which a new convert may have not read or been convicted of as sin. For example: if a new convert has a history of lying (which falls under the Scriptures that you have quoted as incurring the death penalty) and he lies after being converted but does not realize right away that that is sin and then dies is he eternally lost? I am just using lying as an example but there are a number of what you and dake consider death penalty sins from your quoted Scriptures that a new convert may not realize as sin right away and if they sin and die right after that without knowing better do they incur the death penalty? This is not my original vein of questioning, but this is where your questioning has taken our discussion so I am respectfully responding.



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