Dake Bible Discussion BoardEternal Security

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bibleman
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:39 pm

olindquist wrote:
bibleman wrote:

So do you believe that Judas cast out devils by the power of the devil or by the power of God?


Assuming he did and was not an observer, the power of God


Well Jesus said HE gave Judas the power to cast out evils and he did in fact cast out devils.

Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.


So according to Jesus Judas had to have been saved or else he would not have had power to cast out devils.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:06 pm

If Judas did indeed cast out devils by the power of God does that still prove he was saved?
There are a number of instances were God (through delegated authority) used the unsaved, a donkey, and even an evil spirit to Prophesy. (see 1 Sam 18:10, 1 Kings 22: 20-22). And Jesus said riding into Jerusalem, If the people are quiet the rocks will cry out.

As concerning casting out devils by the power of God. Remember there is power in the name of Jesus. Did one need to be saved in order to get results using that name, that is debatable. But in light of the above examples with delegated authority I wonder.

Now after pentecost I don't see examples of delegated authority like the O.T. In fact, with the sons of sceva it did not go well when they tried to cast out devils. Now whether that was because they did not really realize the power in the name or some other reason I'm not sure. My point is that there seemed to be more delegated authority in the O.T. before pentecost and more accountability after.

This discussion has been good(and challenging) and I thank people's input but because of my schedule and the need to focus on other things right now, I am going to take a break and let other's weigh in. I will check up periodically in the days ahead. Thanks again and I will continue to prayerfully consider people's input.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:07 pm

olindquist wrote:If Judas did indeed cast out devils by the power of God does that still prove he was saved?


Of course he was saved, I think Jesus made that pretty clear.

Jesus asked: Mark 3:23 How can Satan cast out Satan?

Jesus stated that Mark 3:24 ...a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Jesus stated that Mark 3:24 ...a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Jesus stated: Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end."

Jesus stated: Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Eternal Security

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:04 pm

Exactly, Leon.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:45 pm

bibleman wrote:
Of course he was saved, I think Jesus made that pretty clear.

Jesus asked: Mark 3:23 How can Satan cast out Satan?

Jesus stated that Mark 3:24 ...a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Jesus stated that Mark 3:24 ...a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Jesus stated: Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end."

Jesus stated: Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.


If those in Mat:7:22-23 were indeed telling the truth (and I see no reason to believe otherwise) then your theory is probably wrong. They said three times "In your name" and Jesus did not deny what they said. He said "I Never knew you!" not at one time I knew you. I think you are making your assumption on one little statement that Dake said in the annotated bible that could have possibly happened. But unlikely.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby Ironman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:56 pm

olindquist wrote:[

If those in Mat:7:22-23 were indeed telling the truth (and I see no reason to believe otherwise) then your theory is probably wrong. They said three times "In your name" and Jesus did not deny what they said. He said "I Never knew you!" not at one time I knew you. I think you are making your assumption on one little statement that Dake said in the annotated bible that could have possibly happened. But unlikely.


Many said they did these things, "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" But no where is it recorded to show they actually did what they said they did. And Jesus would have known this.


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Re: Eternal Security

Postby Ironman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:19 pm

Ironman wrote:
olindquist wrote:[

If those in Mat:7:22-23 were indeed telling the truth (and I see no reason to believe otherwise) then your theory is probably wrong. They said three times "In your name" and Jesus did not deny what they said. He said "I Never knew you!" not at one time I knew you. I think you are making your assumption on one little statement that Dake said in the annotated bible that could have possibly happened. But unlikely.


Many people said they did these things, "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" But no where is it recorded to show they actually did what they said they did. And Jesus would have known this.


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:38 pm

I am really trying to take a break from this topic but because of the seriousness of this topic I feel compelled to respond. I know some of my thoughts disagree with Dake and others who have posted on this topic. However, we do need to be careful not to just jump on one person's teaching because that can cut off revelation quicker than anything as Paul pointed out in 1Corinthians 3. We need to be like the Bereans in searching the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for insight who teaches us all things. I have a great amount of respect for Dake's teachings.

If one were to read through the responses to my posts on this topic, it seems that he/she would come to these conclusions:

1) If a christian just doesn't commit one of the "death penalty sins" they are eternally secure.( The stern warning by Jesus to the church at Ephesus in Rev. 2 is proof enough that eternal security is more than that.)

2) Casting out devils is proof of salvation. (Mat. 7:22-23 proves that to be wrong.)

I don't agree with those conclusions and I also believe this way of thinking is a major reason for the "many" in Mat 7:22 and the "many " that will be lost in Mat 7:13

This way of thinking can also easily get into works rather than relationship/intimacy and staying baptized or immersed in the Holy Spirit which was touched on in my other post on that topic.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:55 pm

olindquist wrote:I am really trying to take a break from this topic but because of the seriousness of this topic I feel compelled to respond. I know some of my thoughts disagree with Dake and others who have posted on this topic. However, we do need to be careful not to just jump on one person's teaching because that can cut off revelation quicker than anything as Paul pointed out in 1Corinthians 3. We need to be like the Bereans in searching the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for insight who teaches us all things. I have a great amount of respect for Dake's teachings.

If one were to read through the responses to my posts on this topic, it seems that he/she would come to these conclusions:

1) If a christian just doesn't commit one of the "death penalty sins" they are eternally secure.( The stern warning by Jesus to the church at Ephesus in Rev. 2 is proof enough that eternal security is more than that.)

2) Casting out devils is proof of salvation. (Mat. 7:22-23 proves that to be wrong.)

I don't agree with those conclusions and I also believe this way of thinking is a major reason for the "many" in Mat 7:22 and the "many " that will be lost in Mat 7:13

This way of thinking can also easily get into works rather than relationship/intimacy and staying baptized or immersed in the Holy Spirit which was touched on in my other post on that topic.


Let me please ask you this question....

Do you believe that a truly, for real, born again Christian can sin away his relationship with God by committing murder..

That is if a Christian who murders his wife - will he for the act of that murder become lost again and lose his salvation?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:12 pm

bibleman wrote:
Let me please ask you this question....

Do you believe that a truly, for real, born again Christian can sin away his relationship with God by committing murder..

That is if a Christian who murders his wife - will he for the act of that murder become lost again and lose his salvation?


Yes, I believe he would lose his salvation without confession and repentance.




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