Dake Bible Discussion BoardEternal Security

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olindquist
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Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:47 pm

I just finished a conversation with a person about eternal security. From reading Rev. Dake's material I know where he stood on the topic which I agree with. A particular point came to my mind that I would appreciate some feedback on. The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23), If we sin willfully (Heb 10:26), He that commits sin is of the Devil ( 1 John 3:8), 2 Peter 2:20-21, Heb. 6:4-6) and others make it clear that one can turn from the truth after being born again and lose their salvation. To me those scriptures and pretty straight forward. However, scripture also states in James 2:10 that if we keep the whole law and offend in one point he is guilty of all or if one knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin. So for example if someone knows that are to witness to people and do not that is sin, or if one knows that are called into the ministry and does not obey the calling that is sin,or if the Holy Spirit is leading one to do something repeatedly and does not obey that is sin. So me by nature being pretty black and white would appreciate any insight on the issue of unrepentant sin because to me sin is sin and the wages of sin is death. I feel there is teaching/preaching that is going into the ditch on both sides. Thanks for your response.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:45 pm

olindquist wrote:I just finished a conversation with a person about eternal security. From reading Rev. Dake's material I know where he stood on the topic which I agree with. A particular point came to my mind that I would appreciate some feedback on. The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23), If we sin willfully (Heb 10:26), He that commits sin is of the Devil ( 1 John 3:8), 2 Peter 2:20-21, Heb. 6:4-6) and others make it clear that one can turn from the truth after being born again and lose their salvation. To me those scriptures and pretty straight forward. However, scripture also states in James 2:10 that if we keep the whole law and offend in one point he is guilty of all or if one knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin. So for example if someone knows that are to witness to people and do not that is sin, or if one knows that are called into the ministry and does not obey the calling that is sin,or if the Holy Spirit is leading one to do something repeatedly and does not obey that is sin. So me by nature being pretty black and white would appreciate any insight on the issue of unrepentant sin because to me sin is sin and the wages of sin is death. I feel there is teaching/preaching that is going into the ditch on both sides. Thanks for your response.


You need to read Dake on "death penalty" sins. Page 429 GPFM

All sin is not the same.


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:50 pm

Thanks for the reply bibleman. I read GPM p. 429 and the different scriptures he references and there is quite a list.

Robbery, murder, adultery, oppressing the poor and needy, idolaters, those that charge interest, evil thoughts, adultery, fornication, wickedness, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, homosexuals, coarse jesting, and the list goes on. Nothing mentions unforgiveness, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, rejecting Jesus which to me are the obvious ones.

And then there's just the one sin of Adam and Eve and look at what that did to all of creation thru the ages.

So which of these are death penalty sins or are they all death penalty sins?



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:37 am

olindquist wrote:Thanks for the reply bibleman. I read GPM p. 429 and the different scriptures he references and there is quite a list.

Robbery, murder, adultery, oppressing the poor and needy, idolaters, those that charge interest, evil thoughts, adultery, fornication, wickedness, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, homosexuals, coarse jesting, and the list goes on. Nothing mentions unforgiveness, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, rejecting Jesus which to me are the obvious ones.

And then there's just the one sin of Adam and Eve and look at what that did to all of creation thru the ages.

So which of these are death penalty sins or are they all death penalty sins?


As Dake would say anything that the Bible says incurs the death penalty sin is a death penalty sin.

For an example what you mentioned above such as:

Witnessing to are not witnessing to someone is not a death penalty sin.
Heeding the call to the ministry or not heeding the call to the ministry is not a death penalty sin.

ARE NOT death penalty sins.

AND remember we are not to keep the LAW of the OT - That law is done away in Christ.

NOW we are to keep NT Law as given by Jesus and the apostles.

Think about a NON-death penalty sin as something like this.

A person has a talent to sing and minister God's word in song.

If they do not they sin against themselves for NOT using their gift to sing.
If they do not they sin against God who gave them the gift to sing.
If they do not they sin against the people who could have been blessed by their ministry.

NOW they don't go to Hell for not singing - why? Because NOT singing is NOT a death penalty sin.

BUT they do lose rewards for the singing ministry that they could have had as the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Remember all sin is not the same!

You would do well to read and re-read God's Plan about death penalty sins to really get a grasp on this subject.


God bless
Leon Bible

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http://www.dakebible.com
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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:49 am

You gave examples of what non-death peanalties are but did not state what are the specific death penalty sins. Yes we are not under the law but grace really puts us at higher standard. Grace is God's empowerment to do what truth demands. The law says you shall not commit adultery, Jesus says if you look at a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery in your heart. The same with murder and hatred without cause in your heart. The law is outward but under grace it is all about the heart which actually puts us at a higher responsibility.

Titus 2:11-12 "The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world." Grace does teach us but not what alot of people think it teaches us.

Colossians 1:20 "..If ye continue in the faith" Speaks of continual obedience.
John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me he is cast forth as a bracnch and is withered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned." Speaks of continual obedience.
1 Peter 1:9 "Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls." Speaks of a continual obedience.
Paul stated in Phillipians 3 that he wanted to know Him and the power of His resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death, if by any means he might attatain to the resurrection of the dead.
Jesus said in order to be His disciple you have to give up everything and to alot of people at judgement day He will say get away from me I never knew you.

Obviously there is more to eternal security than a one time prayer of repentance and staying away from the "Big Sins".

To me it is apparent in scripture that eternal security is based upon walking in obedience to the light one has received and obedience to one's conscience and total consecration to all of scripture as one receives it. Jesus cannot be our savior if He is not our Lord.

I feel this is the one of the top topics in the times we are living in and there is much misuderstanding. For one to think there is a certain list of death penalty sins and if one stays away from these certain sins he has a ticket into heaven is dangerous.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:32 am

olindquist wrote:You gave examples of what non-death peanalties are but did not state what are the specific death penalty sins. Yes we are not under the law but grace really puts us at higher standard. Grace is God's empowerment to do what truth demands. The law says you shall not commit adultery, Jesus says if you look at a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery in your heart. The same with murder and hatred without cause in your heart. The law is outward but under grace it is all about the heart which actually puts us at a higher responsibility.

Titus 2:11-12 "The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world." Grace does teach us but not what alot of people think it teaches us.

Colossians 1:20 "..If ye continue in the faith" Speaks of continual obedience.
John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me he is cast forth as a bracnch and is withered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned." Speaks of continual obedience.
1 Peter 1:9 "Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls." Speaks of a continual obedience.
Paul stated in Phillipians 3 that he wanted to know Him and the power of His resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death, if by any means he might attatain to the resurrection of the dead.
Jesus said in order to be His disciple you have to give up everything and to alot of people at judgement day He will say get away from me I never knew you.

Obviously there is more to eternal security than a one time prayer of repentance and staying away from the "Big Sins".

To me it is apparent in scripture that eternal security is based upon walking in obedience to the light one has received and obedience to one's conscience and total consecration to all of scripture as one receives it. Jesus cannot be our savior if He is not our Lord.

I feel this is the one of the top topics in the times we are living in and there is much misuderstanding. For one to think there is a certain list of death penalty sins and if one stays away from these certain sins he has a ticket into heaven is dangerous.


Above you said: "For one to think there is a certain list of death penalty sins and if one stays away from these certain sins he has a ticket into heaven is dangerous."

The truth is Dake's teachings on the subject is that there are list of death penalty sins and when anyone commits these death penalty sins he incurs the death penalty.

Would you disagree with that?

Above you said: "but did not state what are the specific death penalty sins."

In a nutshell a death penalty sin is any sin mentioned in the Bible that merits the death penalty.

See the list that Dake gives in God's Plan for Man.

There are some sins that demand the death penalty, such as those in Gal. 5:19-21; Rom. 1:29-32; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; Mk. 7:19-21. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 184.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:37 am

Thank you bibleman for your responses and doing it in a respectful manner. You asked if I disagree with dake's teachings about a list of death penalty sins and anyone who commits these is worthy of the death penalty. I do disagree because I feel the list he has from the different scriptures is incomplete and keeping a list misses the point of what our focus should be in Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection in giving us grace or ability to overcome sin in all forms. We have been given the power to overcome sin but it our responsibility to yield our members to God and not to sin in any shape or form. Romans 6;16 talks about what we yield to we are servants to that and if we yield our members to sin it produces death (not just certain sins that we think are death penalty sins).
It goes back to the wages of sin is death. Sin is sin. But praise God we through Jesus Christ have the victory over it. That was Pau'ls whole point in Romans 6-8.

Concerning not obeying God's call or the leading of the Holy Spirit. King Saul in the O.T. did not obey the voice of the prophet and God said rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry (which is part of dake's list of death penalty sins)



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:03 am

olindquist wrote:Thank you bibleman for your responses and doing it in a respectful manner. You asked if I disagree with dake's teachings about a list of death penalty sins and anyone who commits these is worthy of the death penalty. I do disagree because I feel the list he has from the different scriptures is incomplete and keeping a list misses the point of what our focus should be in Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection in giving us grace or ability to overcome sin in all forms. We have been given the power to overcome sin but it our responsibility to yield our members to God and not to sin in any shape or form. Romans 6;16 talks about what we yield to we are servants to that and if we yield our members to sin it produces death (not just certain sins that we think are death penalty sins).
It goes back to the wages of sin is death. Sin is sin. But praise God we through Jesus Christ have the victory over it. That was Pau'ls whole point in Romans 6-8.

Concerning not obeying God's call or the leading of the Holy Spirit. King Saul in the O.T. did not obey the voice of the prophet and God said rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry (which is part of dake's list of death penalty sins)


Lets make it real simple.

Here are some death penalty sins that are mentioned in Galatians:

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (KJV)


Do you believe that if a person commits Adultery (first sin on the list) he incurs the death penalty?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Eternal Security

Postby olindquist » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:19 am

This is what is real simple to me. Anyone living in and making a lifestyle of any sin without repentance incurs the death penalty. Hebrews 10:26-27. I admire, respect, and appreciate dakes teachings tremendously but like I wrote earlier, I believe to categorize sins when it comes to incurring the death penalty is dangerous and gives people a false license to participate in "acceptable christian sins" and misses the whole point of salvation.



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Re: Eternal Security

Postby bibleman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:41 am

olindquist wrote:This is what is real simple to me. Anyone living in and making a lifestyle of any sin without repentance incurs the death penalty. Hebrews 10:26-27. I admire, respect, and appreciate dakes teachings tremendously but like I wrote earlier, I believe to categorize sins when it comes to incurring the death penalty is dangerous and gives people a false license to participate in "acceptable christian sins" and misses the whole point of salvation.


I understand....

But could you please answer the question - that way we can have a conversation. If you do that then I can more fully explain to you what death penalty sins are.

Here are some death penalty sins that are mentioned in Galatians:

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (KJV)

Do you believe that if a person commits Adultery (first sin on the list) he incurs the death penalty?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note


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