Dake Bible Discussion BoardIslam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

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bibleman
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Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

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Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature and the Christian Response
Like the Bible, the Quran teaches that people are descendants of Adam and Eve and are imperfect sinners.
However, the Quran also teaches that their god, Allah, inspired sin in humankind (Quran 4:88; 7:16–18; 9:51; 14:4; 16:93; 35:8; 57:22; 74:31; 91:7–9).
Muslims believe that humans are sinners because Allah has willed it.
They have no understanding similar to the Bible’s teaching that humans, not God, caused sin through rebellion against God (Romans 5:12, 5:18–19).
https://answersingenesis.org/world-reli ... salvation/
Could not help but think that this teaching by Muslim's is similar to how some Calvinist believe!


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titus213
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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by titus213 »

Yes, there may be some Calvinists who come across that way . . . but usually they will say that although God foreordained (not merely foresaw and not merely permitted) the sin of Adam and Eve, He is not responsible for their sinning. It is that whole issue of whether a foreordained action, which cannot help but come to pass since it is foreordained by God, is in any sense then a free and un-coerced action on the part of human beings. If Adam and Eve could do nothing but sin (since God had foreordained that they sin) then in what sense are they responsible for their actions?

This has been, and will continue to be, debated till the cows come home. It's a very fruitless discussion in my opinion, and I have discussed it with many a Calvinist over the years. It is such an essential element in the whole Calvinist system (the idea of God's foreordination of all events good and evil) that they really can't give it up without having the whole system come unglued.



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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

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titus213 wrote:Yes, there may be some Calvinists who come across that way . . . but usually they will say that although God foreordained (not merely foresaw and not merely permitted) the sin of Adam and Eve, He is not responsible for their sinning. It is that whole issue of whether a foreordained action, which cannot help but come to pass since it is foreordained by God, is in any sense then a free and un-coerced action on the part of human beings. If Adam and Eve could do nothing but sin (since God had foreordained that they sin) then in what sense are they responsible for their actions?

This has been, and will continue to be, debated till the cows come home. It's a very fruitless discussion in my opinion, and I have discussed it with many a Calvinist over the years. It is such an essential element in the whole Calvinist system (the idea of God's foreordination of all events good and evil) that they really can't give it up without having the whole system come unglued.
Hi titus213

Yes I agree they say: "that although God foreordained (not merely foresaw and not merely permitted) the sin of Adam and Eve, He is not responsible for their sinning."

When I heard that in seminary I always heard it as "double speak." It didn't make sense then or now. If God foreordained you to do something (and you can't resist it) then of course he is responsible for you doing it.

And yes you are right... they can't give it up and they seldom do.


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by cpbeller »

a close friend of mine followed Calvinism his entire time of being a Christian (since he was in High School, he is 40 now).

The particular brand of Calvinism he followed was that God had so perfectly planned EVERY action and event in your life. That everything you have ever done, or ever will do...and everything that has ever happened to you, or will happen to you...is completely and totally by God's specific and determined purpose and plan in and for your life.

He had no issue driving 8+ hours to meet & greet his personally favorite porn star, because, afterall...he wouldn't be going if God had not planned and controlled his life to make him go meet this porn star. And then come to find out, he was also severely abused sexually when he was a teenager by someone whom he was supposed to be able to trust. He believed that God specifically ordained this to happen to him because of God's "love" for him. Now? he is a proclaimed Atheist...because, in his own words, why would a God who loves, plan and purpose and make to happen what had happened to him as a kid. The sad thing is...he is right, IF God was truly like that. But we all know that God is not. The Calvinistic view, no matter how perverse, is wrong, and leads to even more wrong thinking and understanding of God and Who He is...

As much as a *former* poster on here would rail and rant against WoF, I detest Calvinism.


DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.

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Ironman
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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by Ironman »

(Note: The following text is from http://www.answering-islam.org/)
"The religion of Islam, more than any other religion, philosophy, or belief system, fulfills the description of the antichrist spirit. The religion of Islam makes it one of its highest priorities to very specifically deny the deity of Jesus and His relationship to the Father. In fact, it can very fairly be said that Islam literally is a direct polemical response against the essential Christian doctrines, making it a true antichrist religion. But Muslims will be quick to argue that Islam teaches that Jesus is indeed "the Messiah". But this is really just trickery. While it is true that Islam does retain the title of Messiah for Jesus, when one asks a Muslim to define what the title "Messiah" actually means in Islam, the definitions given are always hollow and fall entirely short of containing any truly messianic substance. In Islam, Jesus is merely another prophet in a long line of prophets. Biblically speaking however, the role of the Messiah, among other things, also entails being a Divine Priestly Savior, a Deliverer and the King of the Jews. The Muslim Jesus, rather than being a Messiah that saves or delivers Israel and all of his faithful followers in any way, in the Islamic traditions, Jesus instead returns to lead Israel's enemies against her in battle and to kill or convert all Jews and Christians (which in fact is exactly what the future Antichrist will be doing according to the Bible). This would be the equivalent of calling Adolph Hitler, rather than Moses, Israel's deliverer. For now, we see that Jesus, via the apostle John, informs us that just before the final hour a very specific "spirit" will dominate the earth. This spirit will deny many of the essential biblical doctrines regarding who Jesus is and what He came to do. Islam epitomizes this spirit perfectly. Look what the Koran says about Jesus:

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. -Surah 5:17 (Yusuf Ali)

They say: "God hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not? -Surah 10:68 (Yusuf Ali)

They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son. -Surah 19:88-92 (Rashad Khalifa)

... the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! -Surah 9:30 (Yusuf Ali)

Proclaim, "He is the One and Only GOD. "The Absolute GOD. "Never did He beget, nor was He begotten. "None equals Him." Quran 112:1-4

Say, "O followers of the scripture, Let us come to a logical agreement between us and you: That we shall not worship except GOD;
That we never set up any human beings as lords beside GOD." If they turn away, say, "Bear witness that we are Submitters." Quran 3:64

The Messiah, the son of Mary, Was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, And his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, And note how they still deviate! Quran 5:75

The Quran literally pronounces a curse on those who believe that Jesus is God's Son. People who say such things utter "gross blasphemies" and are likened to "unbelievers" or infidels. Without question then, in this regard Islam is an antichrist religious system. "Far be it from God that he should have a son!" These words encircle the inside of the Dome of the Rock Mosque in Jerusalem. This is the very location where for centuries God's people; the Jews, worshipped in their Temple awaiting their Messiah. This is also where Jesus, the Son of God and the Jewish Messiah will someday rule over the earth. Islam has literally built a monument of utter defiance to this future reality."

It's important to first understand the fundamentals of Islam through The History of Mecca (Makkah)


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by titus213 »

Interesting… Jews also do not believe that God has a son in the sense that Jesus is the Son of God. I wonder if the antichrist, when he comes, might offer to make some sort of peace settlement between Jews and Muslims based on their shared animosity toward Jesus?



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David Ward Jr
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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by David Ward Jr »

WOW!!!

Thank you for the informative quotes from their book of lies and deceit!!!

Very Informative...


David Ward Jr

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." (Prov. 8:13)

Michael Evans

Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by Michael Evans »

And yet at certain times in their history, the Jews did believe the Messiah was to be the Son of God in a special sense , due to Psalm 2.
When Nathaniel met Jesus and confessed him as the Messiah, he cried "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
Peter's great confession in Caesarea was "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God"
When Caiaphas put Jesus under oath he demanded to know "Are you the Messiah? The Son of the Blessed?"
I recommend visiting this page on the website run by Messianic Jews.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_ ... ssiah.html

On it, they look at the history of the Jewish understandings of their Messiah. Before Jesus came into the world rabbis taught of TWO Messiahs, a "son of Joseph" who comes first and suffers for Israel (quoting Isaiah 53 and Zech 12:10-12 etc) and a "son of David" who comes to rule and reign. At the time of Christ, the Jews were leaning towards the LATTER Messiah and thus missed Him. Interesting that He WAS the (step)son of a man named Joseph. You would think that would have clued some of them in. Since Calvary, Jews no longer read out Isaiah 53 in their synagogue services. It is "too close for comfort" for them and-when pressed- they now teach that the suffering servant is, in fact, the nation of Israel. Before Christ, it was viewed as a Messianic prophecy by many rabbis and Jewish leaders.
In a positive note, I have heard from a reliable source (a minister who has a base in Israel and contacts in high places) that two thirds of the rabbis there covertly believe that Jesus IS the Messiah. It is heartening to read the plethora of testimonies on the Jews for Jesus website of Auschwitz survivors who have received Him. The day is coming when "all Israel shall be saved in a day", although the horror of the tribulation must precede this.



titus213
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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by titus213 »

Yes they could not quite get the idea of a victorious Messiah and a suffering Messiah in one person, so they came up with the two Messiah concept. And yes I had a rabbi friend explain to me that Isaiah 53 clearly referred to Israel because of the wording in Hebrew, and also that the chapter was never used in the synagogue readings.

Praise the Lord that, as Paul says in Romans 11, there is still a remnant according to the election of grace who do believe!



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Re: Islam’s View of Man’s Sinful Nature

Post by Ironman »

To Muslims preaching that Jesus is the Son of God is blasphemy, and even more worthy of death than burning a Koran because they believe that saying God has a son is idolatry, and this is the worst offense in Islam - (search the web for Shirk Islam to learn more). If you look around the world, you see that Muslims are the only religion who practice beheadings. This aligns with the Bible in relation to the forces of the Antichrist beginning to stir.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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