Dake Bible Discussion BoardWho says you can't backslide?

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bibleman
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: No it is coming from my suspicion of Christian "pop" musicians. It seemed like many are in it for glory, fame and fortune rather than serving God. When I say "pop" I'm not speaking of music style but rather their performance style.
So then you do agree that a Christian bound for Heaven, can walk away from God and become a homosexual bound for Hell?

I always did. What I don't agree with is that he can then turn around again and be saved.
So God's grace is good for one time only?

[image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... miaju4LIkg[/image]


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: No it is coming from my suspicion of Christian "pop" musicians. It seemed like many are in it for glory, fame and fortune rather than serving God. When I say "pop" I'm not speaking of music style but rather their performance style.
So then you do agree that a Christian bound for Heaven, can walk away from God and become a homosexual bound for Hell?

I always did. What I don't agree with is that he can then turn around again and be saved.
So God's grace is good for one time only?

[image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... miaju4LIkg[/image]
According to how I read and understand Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 yes. Add to that my knowledge of human nature and my answer would be yes again. Add to that years of observation and again I say yes. Now there may be exceptions but that would be between God and the person.



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bibleman
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: No it is coming from my suspicion of Christian "pop" musicians. It seemed like many are in it for glory, fame and fortune rather than serving God. When I say "pop" I'm not speaking of music style but rather their performance style.
So then you do agree that a Christian bound for Heaven, can walk away from God and become a homosexual bound for Hell?

I always did. What I don't agree with is that he can then turn around again and be saved.
So God's grace is good for one time only?

[image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... miaju4LIkg[/image]
According to how I read and understand Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 yes. Add to that my knowledge of human nature and my answer would be yes again. Add to that years of observation and again I say yes. Now there may be exceptions but that would be between God and the person.
So there are exceptions to the Word of God as you have stated in Hebrews 6 and 10?

Didn't know that, I thought God's Word was the same for everybody!


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: No it is coming from my suspicion of Christian "pop" musicians. It seemed like many are in it for glory, fame and fortune rather than serving God. When I say "pop" I'm not speaking of music style but rather their performance style.
So then you do agree that a Christian bound for Heaven, can walk away from God and become a homosexual bound for Hell?

I always did. What I don't agree with is that he can then turn around again and be saved.
So God's grace is good for one time only?

[image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... miaju4LIkg[/image]
According to how I read and understand Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 yes. Add to that my knowledge of human nature and my answer would be yes again. Add to that years of observation and again I say yes. Now there may be exceptions but that would be between God and the person.
So there are exceptions to the Word of God as you have stated in Hebrews 6 and 10?

Didn't know that, I thought God's Word was the same for everybody!
I think it is but God never said He would not make exceptions. In fact God did he took two people into heaven that didn't die.



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bibleman
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: No it is coming from my suspicion of Christian "pop" musicians. It seemed like many are in it for glory, fame and fortune rather than serving God. When I say "pop" I'm not speaking of music style but rather their performance style.
So then you do agree that a Christian bound for Heaven, can walk away from God and become a homosexual bound for Hell?

I always did. What I don't agree with is that he can then turn around again and be saved.
So God's grace is good for one time only?

[image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... miaju4LIkg[/image]
According to how I read and understand Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 yes. Add to that my knowledge of human nature and my answer would be yes again. Add to that years of observation and again I say yes. Now there may be exceptions but that would be between God and the person.
So there are exceptions to the Word of God as you have stated in Hebrews 6 and 10?

Didn't know that, I thought God's Word was the same for everybody!
I think it is but God never said He would not make exceptions. In fact God did he took two people into heaven that didn't die.
Ed,

As long as you believe that God can just CHANGE HIS WORD anytime He gets a whim.... then you will never have faith!


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:



Ed,

As long as you believe that God can just CHANGE HIS WORD anytime He gets a whim.... then you will never have faith!
Why is that? If my trust is in God that what ever God does is going to be for my good.
Would it be a lack of faith that took Elijah home since scripture says all must die. Or is a lack of faith to look for the rapture in light of scripture that says all must die. There are exceptions all through scripture, people that died in prison while others were miraculously freed. Scripture says no man can see God and live yet we are told Moses and Isaiah saw God.
Last edited by Justaned on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Justaned
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote: Ed,

As long as you believe that God can just CHANGE HIS WORD anytime He gets a whim.... then you will never have faith!
Was Ananias and Sapphira an exception or the rule? Was the woman caught in adultery an exception or a rule?
People cheat on their tithing every day and don't drop dead. The law was if you got caught in adultery you were to be stoned. God made and makes exceptions every day.



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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by David Ward Jr »

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:



Ed,

As long as you believe that God can just CHANGE HIS WORD anytime He gets a whim.... then you will never have faith!
Why is that? If my trust is in God that what ever God does is going to be for my good.
Would it be a lack of faith that took Elijah home since scripture says all must die. Or is a lack of faith to look for the rapture in light of scripture that says all must die. There are exceptions all through scripture, people that died in prison while others were miraculously freed. Scripture says no man can see God and live yet we are told Moses and Isaiah saw God.

Let us keep God's Word in harmony, please.

Let us gather everything on the subject that you may see God's Word is harmonious!

Doesn't the scriptures also show Elijah will come back during the tribulation period and "die"?

Does the Bible also say Jesus will come with a shout as a trumpet during the rapture to gather his children, the church, to escape the tribulation? Do they die? NO!

Many will be raptured and not die!

Please gather everything on the subject before drawing conclusions.


David Ward Jr

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." (Prov. 8:13)

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Watchman2013
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Watchman2013 »

Justaned is correct in his interpretation of The Holy Scriptures. God does not contradict Himself, for that is not possible. Man was given free will. As Man can, and does change his mind, God, being constant in season, and out of season, maintains His position, as He is not the author of confusion. As Lord of All, as well as Time and Space, God sees all that has been, is now, and what will be. He has total awareness of all things, being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He cannot be surprised, as He is all knowing. He is above time, and any and all physical limits or boundaries...

Is it not written,

Hebrews 9:27 (NKJV)
"27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment," ?

And, for verification/illumination of this via Reverend Dake,

"Notes For Verse 27
a [appointed unto men once to die]

Man's Inescapable Appointment

Greek: apokeimai (GSN-<G606>), be laid up in store; be in reserve. Translated appoint (Heb. 9:27); be laid up (Lk. 19:20; Col. 1:5; 2Tim. 4:8). It is appointed or laid up by divine decree: "Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Gen. 3:19). This law of death will hold firm for all men until the time of the rapture when the living who are to be translated will not see death (1Cor. 15:51-58; 1Th. 4:13-16; Php. 3:21). All who live at the end of the Millennium and who do not rebel against God will be permitted to live on the new earth forever without dying. Death will be destroyed and all things will be restored as they were before Adam sinned (Rev. 20:7-10; 21:1-22; Rev 5; 1Cor. 15:24-28).


b [after this the judgment]


Death Ends Probation

After death the judgment, not a second chance to live on earth and be saved. Death ends all probation for the one who dies. If he is righteous at death, his soul and spirit go to heaven awaiting the resurrection of the body (2Cor. 5:8; Php. 1:21-24; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11). If he is wicked at death his soul and spirit go to hell to await the resurrection of his body (Lk. 16:19-31; Isa. 14:9; Rev. 20:11-15). There is no such thing as purgatory or a second chance to be on probation in the Millennium or any other time. Neither is there a reincarnation or a transmigration from body to body.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text."

So, the apparent discontinuity between Enoch and Elijah's "mini-rapture," and Scripture is resolved, when seeing those events as foreshadowing of the Two Witnesses, as referred in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, to John, the Beloved Apostle,

Revelation 11:3-14 (NKJV)
"3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.
10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.
13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly."

Notes For Verse 3
a [two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth]


Eighteen Facts Identifying the Two Witnesses

1. They are two men, not covenants, dispensations, etc. (Rev. 11:3,7-12).

2. They are Christ's witnesses (Rev. 11:3).

3. They will be given power in the future when they come to earth (Rev. 11:3). This does not require them to be men who have already exercised this power.

4. They will be prophets (Rev. 11:3,10).

5. They will prophesy the last 42 months, 1260 days, 3 1/2 years of this age (Rev. 11:2-3; 12:6,14; 13:5; Dan. 7:25; 12:7).

6. They will be clothed in sackcloth (Rev. 11:3).

7. They are symbolized by two olive trees and two candlesticks which stand before God (Rev. 11:4; Zech. 4:11-14).

8. They were already in heaven when Zechariah prophesied, about 500 years before Christ (Zech. 4:11-14).

9. John saw them in heaven about 96 A.D., so whoever they are they are two men translated to reside in heaven at least 500 years before Christ (Rev. 11:4; Zech. 4:11-14; Mal. 4:5-6). This will exclude John the Baptist, John the Apostle, and every other man living after 500 B.C.

10. They will be invincible for the 3 1/2 years of their ministry (Rev. 11:5-7).

11. They will have power to destroy their enemies the same way their enemies seek to destroy them (Rev. 11:5).

12. They will be able to cause fire to come out of their mouths to devour their enemies (Rev. 11:5).

13. They will have power to stop rain all the days of their prophecy (Rev. 11:6).

14. They will have power to turn the water into blood and smite the earth with plagues as often as they will (Rev. 11:6).

15. When the 1260-day ministry is finished the supernatural angelic spirit out of the abyss will use the human Antichrist to kill them (Rev. 11:7).

16. Since it is appointed unto man once to die (Heb. 9:27), it is certain that they are two men who have never died so that they can die at the hands of the Antichrist in the future. This excludes Moses or any other man who has already died as one of the witnesses.

17. They will remain dead for 3 1/2 days and then be resurrected (Rev. 11:8-11). This further proves that they are two men who have never died and that they will not be resurrected, immortal men when they come from heaven to begin their ministry.

18. There would seem to be only two men in the Bible who could fulfil these facts about the two witnesses. They are Enoch and Elijah. That Elijah will be one of them is clearly predicted in Mal. 4:5-6. John the Baptist was never Elijah, fulfilling this prophecy. He said that he was not Elijah (Jn. 1:21). He only came in the same spirit and power of Elijah to prepare the hearts of people for the Messiah's first coming in the way that Elijah will prepare their hearts for the second coming of the Messiah (Lk. 1:17). Enoch is the only other man transported so that he would not experience death in his lifetime on earth (Gen. 5:21-24; Heb. 11:5; 2Ki. 2). Both were prophets of judgment (Jude 1:14-15; 1Ki. 17-18). Both must come back and die their own appointed death on earth, as all men must who live before the rapture (Heb. 9:27; 1Cor. 15:51-58). If either Enoch or Elijah had been transported in immortal, glorified bodies, they would have been the firstfruits of the resurrection instead of Christ (1Cor. 15:20-23). This proves they are in heaven in their natural bodies. They will continue there until their return to fulfil Rev. 11. The lives of Enoch and Elijah are parallel in every sense, so their cases rise or fall together as to being the two witnesses.

Notes For Verse 7
a [the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them] See Seven-Headed, Ten-Horned Beast.

Notes For Verse 8
a [called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified] Jerusalem is so-called because of becoming the headquarters of sodomites (homosexuals, Isa. 1:9-10; Ezek. 16:46,53) and whoredoms (sex and religious perversions, Ezek. 23:3,8,19,27) during the last 3 1/2 years the Gentiles control the city (Rev. 11:1-2). This indicates that sexual and religious perversions will be predominent sins ending this age (Mt. 24:37-39; Lk. 17:26-30).

Notes For Verse 10
a [tormented them that dwelt on the earth] This indicates the reason for the long war of the last 3 1/2 years against the two witnesses.

Notes For Verse 11
a [Spirit of life] Greek: pneuma (GSN-<G4151>) zoes (GSN-<G2222>), spirit of lives.

b [entered into them, and they stood upon their feet] The spirit of life in one makes the body live, but when the spirit leaves the body it dies (Jas. 2:26). This proves the two distinct natures of man -- the material and spiritual natures (Rev. 6:9-11; Gen. 2:7; Prov. 20:27; Job 14:22; 32:8; Zech. 12:1; Mt. 10:28; 26:38-41; 1Cor. 2:11; 6:20; 2Cor. 5:8; Php. 1:21-24; 1Th. 5:23; Heb. 4:12; 12:23). See notes, The Doctrine of Man.
Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text.

Justaned was, and is, correct. Likewise, there is no conflict, disagreement, nor confusion, amongst God- The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Deuteronomy 6:4 (NKJV)
4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

Notes For Verse 4
a [one] Hebrew: 'echad (HSN-<H259>), from 'achad (HSN-<H258>), to unify; to collect; to be united as one; one (Gen. 2:24; 3:22; 11:1,6; cp. Mt. 19:5; Jn. 11:52; 17:21-22; Acts 1:14; 2:1; 4:32; 5:12; 1Cor. 12:12-13; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 1:10; 2:14-15; Heb. 2:11).


The Unity of God

These words were used at the beginning of the Jewish services both morning and evening (Deut. 5:4-5), and may be termed the short creed of the Jews. In them we find not only the declaration of the unity of God (as contrasted with polytheism), the doctrine of the Trinity, and the true nature of spiritual worship, but also the fact that Jehovah is the absolute and only uncaused God. Literally, "Jehovah our 'Elohiym is a unified Jehovah." Deut. 6:1-8 was one of four passages which Jews used in the phylacteries, and which they regarded as one of the most filled with truth and instruction. The other passages were Deut. 11:18-21; Ex. 13:2-10,11-16.

Three Basic Doctrines Expressed:

1. The unity of God -- Jehovah our 'Elohiym is a united Jehovah.

2. The Trinity of God. There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals, but they are one Jehovah and one God in unity, thus expressing the truth of three separate and distinct persons, beings, or individuals in the Trinity (1Jn. 5:7). The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in this way, not one in individuality. The words "Jehovah" and "God" have a singular and a plural meaning, like the word "sheep." Since there are three separate persons, the only way they can be one is in the sense of unity, as prayed for in Jn. 17:21-23. See The Trinity.

3. True worship consists of loving God with all the heart, soul, and might. A wholehearted love for God is the first and great commandment (Mt. 22:36-40).

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text.

When we seek to limit God, from our perspectives, we evidence our weakness to think far more of ourselves, than we ought...

Maranatha

Watchman2013, aka, C.F. Leffen


"Confess with your mouth, that 'Jesus is Lord,' believing in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead, and you will be saved, for with the heart, man believes and is justified, and with his profession of faith, he is saved." Romans 10:9-10.

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Watchman2013
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Re: Who says you can't backslide?

Post by Watchman2013 »

Welcome to the DBDB, David! I've been away, moving from one part of the country, to my, hopefully, last address, this side of Heaven. Your post above mine is wonderful, Sir. I look forward to your contributions.

Maranatha

Watchman2013, aka C. F. Leffen


"Confess with your mouth, that 'Jesus is Lord,' believing in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead, and you will be saved, for with the heart, man believes and is justified, and with his profession of faith, he is saved." Romans 10:9-10.

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