Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Hebrw 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-30

[Ironman]

These Scriptures explain apostacy and apostates, not sinners who repent of their sins and are forgiven??

Dake's notes.

On Hebrews 4:6, (If they should fall away), How could they fall away from experiences of v 4-5 if they never did have them? The language is past tense and factual so it cannot be denied that the ones referred to did at one time have experiences. Greek, parapipto, to fall aside; apostatize; fall away. It means to throw overboard all faith in the experiences of the gospel and to deny them. men are here warned that such is possible.

"To renew them again to repentence," is impossible. The reason given given is that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame. This is the final act of apostacy. They publicly judge Him an imposter and worthy of death. That is, they do not believe in Him or His atonement any longer. Since such faith is the only thing that could renew them again to repentence, it then becomes impossible. How could they be renewed again to repentence if they had not esperienced repentence before? The word "again" means "once more; another time; anew;" and this required repentence one before.

[Justaned]

Ed asked, So how do you answer this question do you think Christians get saved, then sin and lose their salvation, repent and regain their salvation, then sin again lose their salvation, repent and regain their salvation, then sin and once again lose their salvation, repent again regain their salvation, sin again, lost salvation repent regain salvation and the process keeps repeating and if they die while their salvation is lost they suffer eternal damnation?


This is what Dake is saying, it is foreign to almost all Christians but it appears to be Bible. Practically speaking, if one practices confessing one's sins right after they "miss it" or "slip" one doesn't say to himself, I just lost my salvation and got it back, but technically that is what happened and if you don't practice confessing your sins right after you blow it, maybe you aren't walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit of God.

I had been confessing my sins as I committed them but following this conversation I am going to take it to a higher level knowing how serious it is not to confess my sins. For example, don't most of us mumble and complain about certain people in our lives, calling them names, judging them, not forgiving them for minor offenses? This should not be and I am starting to clean up this area of my life.

Did you know causing strife is listed with murder and other sins of the flesh in Galatians (5:20) How many of us are guilty of this even when posting at times?

Dolph
Don't forget about your sins of omission! ... but... if they really are sins of omission you probably don't know you committed them... Oh well!...

I guess you are just destined for damnation.

[branham1965]

Im just watchin'.this is some heavy duty stuff.

thanks guys for putting it out there.

it make my head a hurt a readin it.

i just saw Gary Cooper and Walter Brennan in Sgt.York.what a great picture.they were talkin' like that.

[titus213]

In the Old Testament intentional sins were unforgivable IF the guilty party continued unrepentant: "But whoever acts high-handedly, whether a native or an alien, affronts the Lord, and shall be cut off from among the people. Because of having despised the word of the Lord and broken his commandment, such a person shall be utterly cut off and bear the guilt" (Num 15.30-31). Thus the Lord swore that the sin of Eli's house could never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever (1 Sam 3.14). Perhaps this helps in trying to understand how there can be a process which reaches a point such that a person has committed the "sin unto death"?
The other side of the coin is that for the truly repentant provision was made in the "guilt offering", where the blood became acceptable on the Lord's altar because the death penalty for sin had, in token, been paid vicariously.

[Justaned]

I do not believe a true Christian, a true follower of God can have anything else than a repentant heart.
Our adversary the devil comes at us from all angles and the minute we realize which direction he is trying to point us we must repent turn from that direction and move on.

If a person doesn't have a repentant heart then I would say the person was never really saved.

The minute a saved person loses a repentant and contrite heart, pride will move in and the fall will begin.

[bibleman]

I do not believe a true Christian, a true follower of God can have anything else than a repentant heart.
Our adversary the devil comes at us from all angles and the minute we realize which direction he is trying to point us we must repent turn from that direction and move on.

If a person doesn't have a repentant heart then I would say the person was never really saved.

The minute a saved person loses a repentant and contrite heart, pride will move in and the fall will begin.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "I do not believe a true Christian, a true follower of God can have anything else than a repentant heart."

If that statement is true.... then that is a statement that once a person becomes a "true Christian" then they can NEVER loose their salvation = Once saved always saved.

Agree?

[macca]

Have to agree with that Ed, thats what Jesus said when they, (the religious bunch) saw Jesus's works and attributed them to the devel and demons,,

Thats is deliberate rejection of the Holy Spirit.

macca

[Justaned]

As I view Old Testament forgiveness of sin and New Testament Salvation.
In the Old Testament no matter how repentant you were, how much faith you had you still had to offer a Sin sacrifice every year. The forgiveness of sin was conditional and yearly.

In the New Testament our salvation is eternal, one sacrifice what was made for us by Christ Jesus.

And I think that I was major difference the Old Testament saints were looking for forgiveness of Sin, New Testament saints should be looking for eternal salvation. There is a difference, that difference was Christ Jesus.

Eternal Salvation could not be realized until Jesus paid the price once and for all. That is why Old Testament saints were held captive by death in Abraham's bosom until Jesus descended into Hell, preached the Good News and lead captive captivity to heaven. Eph 4:8

[titus213]

Eternal Salvation could not be realized until Jesus paid the price once and for all

The awareness of eternal salvation is expressed in places like Psalm 103.12 "As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us" and Psalm 125.1 "Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be moved, but abides forever". Of course the animal sacrifices could not, in themselves, provide eternal salvation; but the faith of the OT saint was not in the notion that they ever could! Their faith was in what the animal sacrifices pointed toward, the sacrifice of the future Lamb of God. And THAT sacrifice, we are told specifically, did save the OT believer who looked forward to its accomplishment just as surely as the NT believer who looks back to its accomplishment.

[Justaned]

I'm of the opinion you may suggestting the Old Testament saint had more information than they did.
Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed as they say.

In your example of Pslam 125 they didn't not expect or realize that their sin would be as far as the east is from the west until they had placed it under an animal sacrifice. And I really don't believe that is talking of Salvation as being eternal only the fact that God forgets sins that was paid for with the blood.

We must also be carerful not to equate Rightousness with Salvation there are two different things.

Again the illustration of Mount Sinai is a hyperpole for we know one day the mountains are going to move and collapse.

Old Testament Saints had faith in a God providing a Messiah, I'm of the understanding that, that belief earned them a place in Abraham's bosom where they had to await the Messiah to provide them with eternal salvation.
Until that point they were still held captive by death thus the wording of Eph 4:8

Their sin statue did not change only their entry "pass" into heaven.