Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ ANTI-DISPENSTIONALISTS

[branham1965]

IF SAINT JOHN WAS INSPIRED WE DO.AND HE WAS AND SO CONFESSION OF SIN IS AN IMPERATIVE FOR BELIEVERS.AND WOE TO THOSE TEACHING ITS NOT FOR BELIEVERS.ITS RIDICULOUS.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why would we not confess known sins?

I don't think there is any question that we should repent for known sins. I think what is at issue is how committed sins effect our salvation.

I don't think anyone is denying that intentional sin is wrong or for that matter that any sin is wrong. What is being questioned is that one sin as we are told by scripture makes us guilty of the whole Law does that mean we have lost salvation.

The quick easy answer is yes and until you confess it and repent it could prevent you from going to heaven. I think many people will readily agree to that, and has been the major battle cry of the preaching on backslidding.

However it becomes a lot more sticky and harder to answer in dogmatic way when we talk of an unintentional sin of ommission.

Again sin is sin and one sin is as bad as another so does it mean if we unintentionally commit a sin of omission and neglect to repent of it because we are unaware does that mean we have lost our salvation?

Many will say no, but again we must consider sin as sin and if someone believes one sin can prevent you from going to heaven how do the justify saying another sin does not?

[Justaned]

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why would we not confess known sins?

I don't think there is any question that we should repent for known sins. I think what is at issue is how committed sins effect our salvation.

I don't think anyone is denying that intentional sin is wrong or for that matter that any sin is wrong. What is being questioned is that one sin as we are told by scripture makes us guilty of the whole Law does that mean we have lost salvation.

The quick easy answer is yes and until you confess it and repent it could prevent you from going to heaven. I think many people will readily agree to that, and has been the major battle cry of the preaching on backslidding.

However it becomes a lot more sticky and harder to answer in dogmatic way when we talk of an unintentional sin of ommission.

Again sin is sin and one sin is as bad as another so does it mean if we unintentionally commit a sin of omission and neglect to repent of it because we are unaware does that mean we have lost our salvation?

Many will say no, but again we must consider sin as sin and if someone believes one sin can prevent you from going to heaven how do the justify saying another sin does not?

A lot would depend on your definition o sins of omission. If the Holy Spirit prompts you to do something and you fail to respond, would be my definition.

P.S.- I'm pleasantly surprised, Ed, that you agree with Dake's rather strict view of one's salvation being lost until one confesses his latest sin.

Dolph
I don't agree with Dake on this. And sin of omission is the biggest reason.
A sin of omission is committed when someone fails to do something they should.
It could be a failure to testify about Christ.
It could be a failure to stop at an accident to offer aid.
It could be a failure to provide aid to someone in need.

As scripture clearly tells us sin is sin, and if one sin any sin, an intentional sin or a sin of omission can keep us out of heaven then I would guess no one would be there.

If you take Dake by his letter of the law anyone that tells a lady in church that her hideous hat looks good has lost his salvation until he confesses it and repents means every parent that told their child about Santa Claus is also lost.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED but I believe once saved sin does not take you out of relationship with God. To lose salvation after you are saved requires you to break relationship with God. That has to be willfully and purposely done.

I further believe no truly saved person would willingly commit an intentional sin. I further believe telling a woman her hideous hat looks good or the kids about Santa while technically are untruths they are not purposeful lies intended to harm or bear false witness.

[Justaned]

Ed, so it's o.k. to tell white lies? Do you teach your flock and children this? And how big a white a lie is o.k.? What if you take a paper clip home from the office? A pencil? Is that a good thing? It's not stealing? So, small sins are allowed? Verses?

Would your definition of sins of omission include gabbing on the internet when you could be witnessing on the street? What about eating a steak dinner at a restaurant while people are starving around the world?

Dolph
I didn't say any sin was okay. And yes white lies are still lies, stealing a paper clip is same as stealing a car, using the internet at work is stealing both time and resources from your boss.

Sins of omission are sins of omission whether you are gabbing on the internet and not witnessing or watching TV and ignoring your children.

And that is exactly why we can't be sinless in ourselves. We all sin and fall short.

All of these sins effect our christian witness and to me that is the biggest reason we need to minimize them. It is hard to witness to a co worker that has seen you stealing reams of paper, or boxes of pens. Or one that seen us ignore our kids so we can go golfing or watch TV.

But this is also why I say once we are in Christ a sin such as stealing a box of pens will not cost us our salvation. Again I'm not saying it won't adversely effect us, you might get caught and fired, you may be noticed and ruin your Christian witness, or hopefully your conscience will bother you until you make it right.

Some people have a different view, they say little white lies are okay but big black lies send you straight to hell unless you confess them. That is where I disagree, sin is sin. I believe once we are in Christ the only sin that will cost you your salvation is the willfully breaking your relationship with Christ.

[Justaned]

Ed, so it's o.k. to tell white lies? Do you teach your flock and children this? And how big a white a lie is o.k.? What if you take a paper clip home from the office? A pencil? Is that a good thing? It's not stealing? So, small sins are allowed? Verses?

Would your definition of sins of omission include gabbing on the internet when you could be witnessing on the street? What about eating a steak dinner at a restaurant while people are starving around the world?

Dolph
I didn't say any sin was okay. And yes white lies are still lies, stealing a paper clip is same as stealing a car, using the internet at work is stealing both time and resources from your boss.

Sins of omission are sins of omission whether you are gabbing on the internet and not witnessing or watching TV and ignoring your children.

And that is exactly why we can't be sinless in ourselves. We all sin and fall short.

All of these sins effect our christian witness and to me that is the biggest reason we need to minimize them. It is hard to witness to a co worker that has seen you stealing reams of paper, or boxes of pens. Or one that seen us ignore our kids so we can go golfing or watch TV.

But this is also why I say once we are in Christ a sin such as stealing a box of pens will not cost us our salvation. Again I'm not saying it won't adversely effect us, you might get caught and fired, you may be noticed and ruin your Christian witness, or hopefully your conscience will bother you until you make it right.

Some people have a different view, they say little white lies are okay but big black lies send you straight to hell unless you confess them. That is where I disagree, sin is sin. I believe once we are in Christ the only sin that will cost you your salvation is the willfully breaking your relationship with Christ.

So you will continue to lie intentionally when you meet a lady and deliberately tell her that her ugly hat is beautiful? By teaching this, and that is what you are doing, you open Pandora's box or should I say, Satan's box, and have made Satan your father and lord. My point is, once you cross the line your white lies are likely to grow and you are setting a bad example for those around you, especially if you are a minister of the gospel. Then you enter the field of small, medium and large white lies. It becomes acceptable to lie "if it doesn't hurt anybody."

I agree with Dr, Dake that when you tell a white lie you have made Satan your lord. Just because you do something very virtuous 5 minutes later, does that erase your momentary rebellion?? Can you serve to masters?? Isn't this what the world does on a regular basis or luke warm christians?

Well I could always wreck the ladies self esteem by telling her exactly what I think of her hideous hat.

Some might suggest using tactic to edge around the answer or avoid answering itbut then it would be a lie of omission so there is no right answer unless you want to hurt the person.

Remember I did not condone telling even a white lie. I simply said I do not believe sin makes us lose our salvation other than the sin of severing our relationship with Christ.

[bibleman]

Ed, so it's o.k. to tell white lies? Do you teach your flock and children this? And how big a white a lie is o.k.? What if you take a paper clip home from the office? A pencil? Is that a good thing? It's not stealing? So, small sins are allowed? Verses?

Would your definition of sins of omission include gabbing on the internet when you could be witnessing on the street? What about eating a steak dinner at a restaurant while people are starving around the world?

Dolph
I didn't say any sin was okay. And yes white lies are still lies, stealing a paper clip is same as stealing a car, using the internet at work is stealing both time and resources from your boss.

Sins of omission are sins of omission whether you are gabbing on the internet and not witnessing or watching TV and ignoring your children.

And that is exactly why we can't be sinless in ourselves. We all sin and fall short.

All of these sins effect our christian witness and to me that is the biggest reason we need to minimize them. It is hard to witness to a co worker that has seen you stealing reams of paper, or boxes of pens. Or one that seen us ignore our kids so we can go golfing or watch TV.

But this is also why I say once we are in Christ a sin such as stealing a box of pens will not cost us our salvation. Again I'm not saying it won't adversely effect us, you might get caught and fired, you may be noticed and ruin your Christian witness, or hopefully your conscience will bother you until you make it right.

Some people have a different view, they say little white lies are okay but big black lies send you straight to hell unless you confess them. That is where I disagree, sin is sin. I believe once we are in Christ the only sin that will cost you your salvation is the willfully breaking your relationship with Christ.

So you will continue to lie intentionally when you meet a lady and deliberately tell her that her ugly hat is beautiful? By teaching this, and that is what you are doing, you open Pandora's box or should I say, Satan's box, and have made Satan your father and lord. My point is, once you cross the line your white lies are likely to grow and you are setting a bad example for those around you, especially if you are a minister of the gospel. Then you enter the field of small, medium and large white lies. It becomes acceptable to lie "if it doesn't hurt anybody."

I agree with Dr, Dake that when you tell a white lie you have made Satan your lord. Just because you do something very virtuous 5 minutes later, does that erase your momentary rebellion?? Can you serve to masters?? Isn't this what the world does on a regular basis or luke warm christians?

Well I could always wreck the ladies self esteem by telling her exactly what I think of her hideous hat.

Some might suggest using tactic to edge around the answer or avoid answering itbut then it would be a lie of omission so there is no right answer unless you want to hurt the person.

Remember I did not condone telling even a white lie. I simply said I do not believe sin makes us lose our salvation other than the sin of severing our relationship with Christ.

Hi Ed,

Above you said; "I simply said I do not believe sin makes us lose our salvation other than the sin of severing our relationship with Christ."

So the sin of murder or hatred would not make us lose our salvation?

[Justaned]

Ed, so it's o.k. to tell white lies? Do you teach your flock and children this? And how big a white a lie is o.k.? What if you take a paper clip home from the office? A pencil? Is that a good thing? It's not stealing? So, small sins are allowed? Verses?

Would your definition of sins of omission include gabbing on the internet when you could be witnessing on the street? What about eating a steak dinner at a restaurant while people are starving around the world?

Dolph
I didn't say any sin was okay. And yes white lies are still lies, stealing a paper clip is same as stealing a car, using the internet at work is stealing both time and resources from your boss.

Sins of omission are sins of omission whether you are gabbing on the internet and not witnessing or watching TV and ignoring your children.

And that is exactly why we can't be sinless in ourselves. We all sin and fall short.

All of these sins effect our christian witness and to me that is the biggest reason we need to minimize them. It is hard to witness to a co worker that has seen you stealing reams of paper, or boxes of pens. Or one that seen us ignore our kids so we can go golfing or watch TV.

But this is also why I say once we are in Christ a sin such as stealing a box of pens will not cost us our salvation. Again I'm not saying it won't adversely effect us, you might get caught and fired, you may be noticed and ruin your Christian witness, or hopefully your conscience will bother you until you make it right.

Some people have a different view, they say little white lies are okay but big black lies send you straight to hell unless you confess them. That is where I disagree, sin is sin. I believe once we are in Christ the only sin that will cost you your salvation is the willfully breaking your relationship with Christ.

So you will continue to lie intentionally when you meet a lady and deliberately tell her that her ugly hat is beautiful? By teaching this, and that is what you are doing, you open Pandora's box or should I say, Satan's box, and have made Satan your father and lord. My point is, once you cross the line your white lies are likely to grow and you are setting a bad example for those around you, especially if you are a minister of the gospel. Then you enter the field of small, medium and large white lies. It becomes acceptable to lie "if it doesn't hurt anybody."

I agree with Dr, Dake that when you tell a white lie you have made Satan your lord. Just because you do something very virtuous 5 minutes later, does that erase your momentary rebellion?? Can you serve to masters?? Isn't this what the world does on a regular basis or luke warm christians?

Well I could always wreck the ladies self esteem by telling her exactly what I think of her hideous hat.

Some might suggest using tactic to edge around the answer or avoid answering itbut then it would be a lie of omission so there is no right answer unless you want to hurt the person.

Remember I did not condone telling even a white lie. I simply said I do not believe sin makes us lose our salvation other than the sin of severing our relationship with Christ.

Hi Ed,

Above you said; "I simply said I do not believe sin makes us lose our salvation other than the sin of severing our relationship with Christ."

So the sin of murder or hatred would not make us lose our salvation?

As I have often said I don't think a true Christian would do those things so I really don't know.

[branham1965]

i remember a Gospel magazine i subscribed to in the 1980's.they fussed alot in it.it was a given they were going to get on something.it was interesting .never boring.
they got on this subject of sins and the believer.
they covered :
1.sins of comission
2.sins of omission
3.sins of weakness of the flesh
4.sins of ignorance
AND EVERY OTHER IMAGINABLE WAY TO SIN .by the end of the article ....i was just worn out.
i wrote the Editor.no response.funny i was best mates with his older brother....LW He is a fine man.they were all Preachers in his family.
i thought what a WASTE of time fussing over such silly things.my big white bulldog Fredrick the Great agreed.
Christians are going to miss it .going to fail going to need to practice 1 John 1-2.need to cleanse themselves daily.
im not talking about any licence to commit sin and works of the flesh.then praying like the old Texas Farmer..." Lord forgive me of all these things ive done wrong and for that hog im going to steal from Mr.Smith on Thursday" .....

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why would we not confess known sins?

I don't think there is any question that we should repent for known sins. I think what is at issue is how committed sins effect our salvation.

I don't think anyone is denying that intentional sin is wrong or for that matter that any sin is wrong. What is being questioned is that one sin as we are told by scripture makes us guilty of the whole Law does that mean we have lost salvation.

The quick easy answer is yes and until you confess it and repent it could prevent you from going to heaven. I think many people will readily agree to that, and has been the major battle cry of the preaching on backslidding.

However it becomes a lot more sticky and harder to answer in dogmatic way when we talk of an unintentional sin of ommission.

Again sin is sin and one sin is as bad as another so does it mean if we unintentionally commit a sin of omission and neglect to repent of it because we are unaware does that mean we have lost our salvation?

Many will say no, but again we must consider sin as sin and if someone believes one sin can prevent you from going to heaven how do the justify saying another sin does not?

A lot would depend on your definition o sins of omission. If the Holy Spirit prompts you to do something and you fail to respond, would be my definition.

P.S.- I'm pleasantly surprised, Ed, that you agree with Dake's rather strict view of one's salvation being lost until one confesses his latest sin.

[Justaned]

Ed, you said one sin is equal to another, then murder is equal to bad hat comments. This supports Dr. Dake's position. You have lost your salvation until you repent.

It's awful quiet in this Presbyterian Church!!!!

I never said you lose your salvation. That is either you, Dake or someone else that is saying that.

[bibleman]

Ed, you said one sin is equal to another, then murder is equal to bad hat comments. This supports Dr. Dake's position. You have lost your salvation until you repent.

It's awful quiet in this Presbyterian Church!!!!

I never said you lose your salvation. That is either you, Dake or someone else that is saying that.

Hi Ed,

Can any sin or a change of heart cause a true born again believer to lose his salvation?

[Justaned]

Ed, you said one sin is equal to another, then murder is equal to bad hat comments. This supports Dr. Dake's position. You have lost your salvation until you repent.

It's awful quiet in this Presbyterian Church!!!!

I never said you lose your salvation. That is either you, Dake or someone else that is saying that.

Hi Ed,

Can any sin or a change of heart cause a true born again believer to lose his salvation?

Can any sin? NO but there is the sin of rejecting the saving relatonship with Christ is a sin that can cause us to lose our salvation. Heb 6

Can a change of heart? Yes When the heart of man changes to the point he rejects Jesus Christ he is lost. Again Heb 6

Now the question you didn't ask.

Can a person once saved and then loses his salvation by rejecting his relationship with Christ ever be saved again? Scripture Hebrew 6 and 10 say NO!