Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Does everything happen for a reason?

[cpbeller]

Ed, this god you worship...he must be a real work of art.

He cannot make his mind up if he wants to heal or not. He is all into the whole child abuse thing. He is a murderer. He lies, cheats and steals (all in the name of "good", of course). He takes liberty with the truth to make a story interesting. He can't be trusted because he doesn't keep his word when he doesn't want to (but yet, you still tell us that we need to trust him). Half the time, he doesn't mean what he says...

You know what, Ed...you can keep that god. I will stick with the one that is contrary to all those "great" points about yours...

[Justaned]

Leon...we have had this discussion before...I am not sure why I have to continue to remind you of this.

1. Ed is always right. Never wrong. Ever.

2. God very rarely means what He says.

3. If the previous two points make no sense, see point #1

Now, Ed. You continue to ask the question "why pray?" I will ask you the same question. Why pray? I mean, if God is going to do whatever God is going to do...then why pray? I mean, afterall, God is so in control that He will just do whatever He wants to, anyways, right? So, why pray?

Ed: "You take one remote incident and refuse to accept my take on it that God was speaking as an author making the story interesting instead saying of course you will do it I knew it."

I don't know about you but I pray to God to change my heart, to open my eyes to what he is trying to teach me and make me more like Jesus. I pray because I do believe God is in control, that he knows what I'm going to ask before I do but that He still wants me to pray to him.

Why to you try to provoke me, to ridicule me? What have I done to you?

?????????

Making the "story" interesting???? Really???? REALLY??? So God is taking liberty with the truth, to MAKE THE STORY INTERESTING??? So God is lying, while giving His own testimony of an event...TO MAKE THE STORY INTERESTING????

Ed, you are so far out there...it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic...and sad...mostly pathetic, but sad too.

..."to make the story interesting". And you call yourself a pastor, a preacher...and you come up with...things...like that.

[Justaned]

Ed, this god you worship...he must be a real work of art.

He cannot make his mind up if he wants to heal or not. He is all into the whole child abuse thing. He is a murderer. He lies, cheats and steals (all in the name of "good", of course). He takes liberty with the truth to make a story interesting. He can't be trusted because he doesn't keep his word when he doesn't want to (but yet, you still tell us that we need to trust him). Half the time, he doesn't mean what he says...

You know what, Ed...you can keep that god. I will stick with the one that is contrary to all those "great" points about yours...

Why do you say these things? Where did I suggest or imply any of them?

Is your position so weak you can't defend it with logic or reason or scripture so instead you must rely on belittling and making untrue accusations about the God I worship?

Christ I have repeatedly apologized for anything I said or did that made you so bent on revenge and hateful toward me. I have asked for your forgiveness. Yet all I receive from you is more hate and spiteful comments. You claim to be a Christian yet all you show is anger and belittling and shameful accusations.

[Justaned]

If a poster gets frustrated debating another poster they should either

(1) take a cold shower;
(2) send flowers or candy to their opponent;
(3) not respond at all to the last comment;
(4) say something like this: I don't understand or agree with your comments and nature is calling so have a nice day.

Otherwise, we are going to get into the flesh and not going to please God as Watchman has warned on another thread.

Well said! Both of you Watchman and Dolph. I hope all of us take this to heart.

[cpbeller]

How about we just accept the Word as it is written? God told Abraham, after stopping him from killing his son, that "Now I know..." God did not put that in there "to make the story interesting", as you have said. God put that in there because it was the truth.

Now, you say that God could not be God if He did not already know. I say God was the one that said that at that point, He then knew. How could God be the Master of Time, knowing all things, yet not knowing that until it happened? I don't know. I am not God. I do not presume to know how God could know all things, yet be limited in knowledge at that time in regards to Abraham and what his choice would have been. How can the finite understand the infinite? I simply believe what the Word says about it, and the Word clearly says that God said, "Now I know..." Ed, you are the one adding in there that God was trying to add color commentary to make the story interesting.

The same thing goes for this "God is in control" deal. How can the all-powerful God not be in total control? How can the God Who is Who He is, not have his perfect will be fulfilled? I don't know. I don't pretend to know. All I know is, is that God has said it does not please Him when the wicked perish. I know that God has said that it is His will that none should perish, but that all come to repentance. If He is in total control, then do tell, why do people perish? You seem to be playing a game of semantics, but He is either in control of it all, or He isn't. If He is in absolute control, as you insist to keep pushing, then sin, death, and the ruination of this world lays on His shoulders. But, it doesn't. Because He gave dominion of the earth to man, for man to watch over and keep. Man failed. Therefore, man was responsible. If God was in control, then God would be responsible.

Ed, I posted those remarks, because that is the only sane way to take this stuff you are saying. How can you, a proclaimed Pastor, say that God plays with the truth to make the stories more interesting? The only way I can believe you are not just simply an idiot is to think that you are trying to give us a joke...because that was one of the most idiotic things I have ever read, even from you. Think about it. You are stating that God is not being truthful so the story would be more interesting. If God did that, then why didn't He interject some color into the genealogies? If there was anything in the Bible that would need to "color commentary" added to make it interesting, it would be those spots.

You have made proclamations on this board about God that are simply not true. I know, I need to go find them and post them. No, I am not going to waste my time. One only needs to read what you say to see it. In fact, you have even stated some of those things in these current threads. Your assault on the character of God is shameful. You say you are not, but look at what you continue to say. God is in control. Take that out to the logical end...God is to be blamed for sin, and the current state of this world. Because He was in control all along. You say He was in control, but not controlling anything...wait, what? How could He be in control, yet not control anything? You make no sense.

The things you teach are a blight on Christianity, and it brings shame to the Name of Christ.

You asked why I say what I say in regards to what you put on these boards. It is because the things you say, are nonsense. And this last deal with God saying things that are not true so He can make the story interesting is simply that...nonsense. I was doing pretty good staying out of it, but that statement was such a winner, I couldn't resist. And the kicker is, you continue to believe, adamantly believe, that you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Even when shown that you are wrong. You then start coming up with this weird stuff about God trying to make the story interesting, comparing Him to an (mystery) author. Really? A mystery author? You boggle my mind, Ed...you really, truly do. And if you really do believe the stuff you are saying and trying to "teach" here...well, I don't really know what to say other than shake my head and laugh...

[cpbeller]

Ed, this god you worship...he must be a real work of art.

He cannot make his mind up if he wants to heal or not. He is all into the whole child abuse thing. He is a murderer. He lies, cheats and steals (all in the name of "good", of course). He takes liberty with the truth to make a story interesting. He can't be trusted because he doesn't keep his word when he doesn't want to (but yet, you still tell us that we need to trust him). Half the time, he doesn't mean what he says...

You know what, Ed...you can keep that god. I will stick with the one that is contrary to all those "great" points about yours...

Why do you say these things? Where did I suggest or imply any of them?

Is your position so weak you can't defend it with logic or reason or scripture so instead you must rely on belittling and making untrue accusations about the God I worship?

Christ I have repeatedly apologized for anything I said or did that made you so bent on revenge and hateful toward me. I have asked for your forgiveness. Yet all I receive from you is more hate and spiteful comments. You claim to be a Christian yet all you show is anger and belittling and shameful accusations.

You have stated that God will heal sometimes on the other side of heaven. Ed, there is no sickness there...nobody needs healing in heaven. It is here that they need healing. Once they get to heaven, they leave the sickness behind.

You have said that God sometimes wills us to be sick, die, get beaten, brutalized, ect ect ect. If that is true, then God is a child-abuser (both in regards to us as His children, and the physical children that he wills to be subjected to real abuse, sickness and deaths). Your insistence that God is in full control of it all would make Him a child-abuser and a murderer.

You have made the claims that God does not need to keep His Own Word if He does not want to, and indeed, has not on some occassions. This would make God an oath-breaker, and a liar, which would make Him an outlaw from His Own laws that He Himself put into place.

You have, in this thread, or in the other current one, that God takes liberty with the truth, saying things that are not true, to make the story more interesting.

I don't know...perhaps you don't even realize you are saying this stuff...But you do, or you heavily imply to the point where only those who cannot understand the english language would deny that is what you are saying.

I do take issue with you, Ed. I take issue with everything you say. Why? It isn't because I hate you, as you seem to think. I hate what it is you say on here. I don't even know you. You keep bringing up my Christianity. I wonder if you are even saved, Ed. All based on the silly things you purport to believe, the teachings you try to valiantly to defend (and those whom you defend...Hero Hank, anyone?) You may be one of the nicest men on the planet...in person. But on this board? You post things that so foolish, that I cannot help but confront. You have claimed your mission on this board is to correct us poor WoF'ers. Well, maybe my mission is to confront you on all fronts of your silliness, accusations, and attempts to spread your false teachings. Ever think of that?

[Justaned]

Ed, this god you worship...he must be a real work of art.

He cannot make his mind up if he wants to heal or not. He is all into the whole child abuse thing. He is a murderer. He lies, cheats and steals (all in the name of "good", of course). He takes liberty with the truth to make a story interesting. He can't be trusted because he doesn't keep his word when he doesn't want to (but yet, you still tell us that we need to trust him). Half the time, he doesn't mean what he says...

You know what, Ed...you can keep that god. I will stick with the one that is contrary to all those "great" points about yours...

Why do you say these things? Where did I suggest or imply any of them?

Is your position so weak you can't defend it with logic or reason or scripture so instead you must rely on belittling and making untrue accusations about the God I worship?

Christ I have repeatedly apologized for anything I said or did that made you so bent on revenge and hateful toward me. I have asked for your forgiveness. Yet all I receive from you is more hate and spiteful comments. You claim to be a Christian yet all you show is anger and belittling and shameful accusations.

You have stated that God will heal sometimes on the other side of heaven. Ed, there is no sickness there...nobody needs healing in heaven. It is here that they need healing. Once they get to heaven, they leave the sickness behind.

You have said that God sometimes wills us to be sick, die, get beaten, brutalized, ect ect ect. If that is true, then God is a child-abuser (both in regards to us as His children, and the physical children that he wills to be subjected to real abuse, sickness and deaths). Your insistence that God is in full control of it all would make Him a child-abuser and a murderer.

You have made the claims that God does not need to keep His Own Word if He does not want to, and indeed, has not on some occassions. This would make God an oath-breaker, and a liar, which would make Him an outlaw from His Own laws that He Himself put into place.

You have, in this thread, or in the other current one, that God takes liberty with the truth, saying things that are not true, to make the story more interesting.

I don't know...perhaps you don't even realize you are saying this stuff...But you do, or you heavily imply to the point where only those who cannot understand the english language would deny that is what you are saying.

I do take issue with you, Ed. I take issue with everything you say. Why? It isn't because I hate you, as you seem to think. I hate what it is you say on here. I don't even know you. You keep bringing up my Christianity. I wonder if you are even saved, Ed. All based on the silly things you purport to believe, the teachings you try to valiantly to defend (and those whom you defend...Hero Hank, anyone?) You may be one of the nicest men on the planet...in person. But on this board? You post things that so foolish, that I cannot help but confront. You have claimed your mission on this board is to correct us poor WoF'ers. Well, maybe my mission is to confront you on all fronts of your silliness, accusations, and attempts to spread your false teachings. Ever think of that?

Let me set the record straight I don't think I ever said

You have said that God sometimes wills us to be sick, die, get beaten, brutalized, ect ect ect. If that is true, then God is a child-abuser (both in regards to us as His children, and the physical children that he wills to be subjected to real abuse, sickness and deaths). Your insistence that God is in full control of it all would make Him a child-abuser and a murderer.

If I did I was wrong and mis spoke. What I think I said or at least intended to say was that God sometimes allows us to be sick, die, get beaten, brutalized, ect. Allowing is not the same things a willing.

We see God allowing Job to be go through all of this and more, so why should we think we are better than Job?

The fact God is in total control and yet allows things to happen does not make God the bad guy. Of every "Bad" thing that occurred in my life I have learned invaluable lessons, lessons I would not have learned had I not experienced what I had. I also learned or developed compassion and patience in each trial. But most of all I learned that God could be trusted, that God was indeed with me.

There is not way for us to develop that trust in God unless it is put to the test and of course the test requires us to go through what we define as bad things.

If you can't grasp that truth then I don't think you fully understand God's love for you.

[davido]

I pray in the morning for God's angels to protect my family and myself but at times
God's angels do not protect us.
I look at the life of Job. He was righteous in all ways and yet disaster befalled upon him.
I pray for my family and most often when God is blessing, nothing goes wrong,
then other times not so. We must always conclude it is our fault, like Job, but
what could Job have done better, to be more righteous.
But what do we do when we have total faith in God and things go wrong.
I remember Oral Roberts telling of his daughters death in an automobile accident
and Oral said he let his guard down. David Wilkerson died in an automobile accident.
I don't know why these things happen to the uncompromising righteous when
we are told to pray and trust God. This is one question I cannot answer.
Throughout his ordeal, Job hadn’t been able to understand why he had faced terrible suffering even though he had been a good man. He seems to have been starting to grasp the truth, but hadn’t gone far enough. He knew that terrible things happened to righteous people, but he couldn’t understand why.
God gives insight into the reason. He cannot both allow and suppress sin at the same moment. Not even God can sustain a logical contradiction. To give us free will, God has to permit sin, and because He has permitted it, it affects other people also. Job, like so many others through history, bore the consequences of the sinful envy of the satan (Job 1-2). He bore the sin of his enemy.
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I command a hedge of protection to be around my home and property today and I ask that warrior angels sent by the one true God would be placed to stand guard at any holes that might be in that hedge. *Holes in the hedge can be caused by yet to be dealt with sin, trauma or wounding in the lives of the people who dwell in the home.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I command any free, unbound, or wandering spirits to get out beyond that hedge of protection now.

In the name of Jesus Christ, I ask that warrior angels be placed at the doorways and access points to my home and property today that would keep out any free, unbound or wandering spirits that would try to access my home and property today. Jesus, send warrior angels that would bind and separate from their functions any demons attached to any individuals entering my home and property today. * An access point could be cable TV, internet, telephone or other communication devices in the home, power hookup, water supply or heat source.

Father God, I ask for a spiritual umbrella of protection over me and a spiritual hedge of protection around me. I place the full armour of God on me, and I ask that the light of the Lord Jesus shine through me this day.

praying Ephesians 6 daily over yourself and meditating on the scripture often.

Eph 6: 13-17 Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
So I pray for God's angels to protect us, cast Satan from us by the blood and Jesus and yet we are not protected
Then I pray to God in Jesus name that Satan be seqeusted from my family and my household and myself.
Yet my son in the hospital for 4 days, and my van was hit by a cycle going about 100 mph as I carefully did a uturn having seen the
cycle blocks away and having ample time to turn.
When God is blessing us mightily we have healing, casting out of devils, edues with power, guides us in daily problems, imparts and causes supernatural power to be, imparts revelations,
and then one day problems. It is a shock to have faith in God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit and then things go wrong.

[victoryword]

Ah, I have begun working on my latest book and it deals with the subject of God being in control.

[Justaned]

To believe God isn't in control lines up with the evolutionist that say life just happened. Man always wants to reject God's control. Adam and Eve rebelled against it in the garden and most unsaved do so today.

What is interesting is the teaching that has crept into the church that God isn't in control. That man is in charge of his own destiny. Than man can by the use of faith or the lack of faith more or less controls his own destiny.

Where does that leave those the believe scripture that says we are to be servants of God. A servant surely does not control his destiny his master does. If we are truly servants of God than it is God that controls our destiny.
In fact scripture agrees when it says Psalm 37:23 (NKJV)
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way.

Most that teach God isn't in control never want to discuss Job. In Job we see God tell Satan what he can and can not do.Job 1:12 (NKJV)
12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Yet we see in all of this Job 1:22 (NKJV)
22 In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

Then again God tells Satan what he can and can not do.
Job 2:6 (NKJV)
6 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life."

And again we see Job is reported to be sinless. Job 2:10 (NKJV)
10 But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

Notice also who Job said allowed this to happen GOD and immediately scripture says Job did not sin with his lips. So if it wasn't God and Job charged God scripture would have to report Job sinned with his lips that scripture clearly says Job did not sin with his lips.

So I beg you don't be like an evolutionist denying God be like Job and don't sin with your lips. God is in control.