Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHO WAS GREATER: MOSES OR PAUL

[graceforme]

what does Reverend Dake say about point 6 Linda.

im not trying to fuss with you.you are a diamond.plus a genuine Buckeye from up North.

could you explain your position please???where do you differ from other Evangelicals as far as when this began and its implications.i used to try to get you immmersed ill not do that anymore friend.

i understand it is what Dr.Bullinger himself taught.

i wont even jaw ill listen.

Please check your private message, billy.

[Ray]

why was his body hid father fisher????
actually 2 Angels fought over it!!!!
Jude.why did God hide it.

It depends on what measurement you use for greatness, I suppose, but I would say Paul. For all his greatness, Moses was disobedient as God's representative before the people and was barred from entering the Promised Land as a result. As I read about Paul's life and service, it seems to me that he was greater as an obedient servant of the Lord.

Why was Satan interested in it if he didn't think he had a right to claim it due to the sins of Moses?

My guess would be that God didn't want the Israelites to bury Moses, or even know where he was buried specifically, for fear that they would honor him and make him a god in the way they had seen the Egyptians do it with their Pharaohs.

I believe GOD had plans for Moses' body.
Matthew 17:
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

[branham1965]

RAY

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

EXPOUND?????????????

why was his body hid father fisher????
actually 2 Angels fought over it!!!!
Jude.why did God hide it.

It depends on what measurement you use for greatness, I suppose, but I would say Paul. For all his greatness, Moses was disobedient as God's representative before the people and was barred from entering the Promised Land as a result. As I read about Paul's life and service, it seems to me that he was greater as an obedient servant of the Lord.

Why was Satan interested in it if he didn't think he had a right to claim it due to the sins of Moses?

My guess would be that God didn't want the Israelites to bury Moses, or even know where he was buried specifically, for fear that they would honor him and make him a god in the way they had seen the Egyptians do it with their Pharaohs.

I believe GOD had plans for Moses' body.
Matthew 17:
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

[titus213]

Well, since Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection (Acts 26.23; 1 Cor 15.23) Moses would not have been there bodily. He merely "appeared" to Peter, James and John -- by God's power he became visible to them. But the text does not suggest the idea that either Moses or Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies at the Transfiguration.

[Justaned]

Well, since Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection (Acts 26.23; 1 Cor 15.23) Moses would not have been there bodily. He merely "appeared" to Peter, James and John -- by God's power he became visible to them. But the text does not suggest the idea that either Moses or Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies at the Transfiguration.

I totally agree and I also agree with your initial post that the reason God wanted the angels to bury Moses is to prevent the Children of Israel from building any sort of monument to Moses or trying to preserve the body to honor or worship it. The probably knew how to mummify from the Egyptians and I can just imagine them building something like the ARK of covenant to carry Moses' body around in.

[Ray]

Well, since Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection (Acts 26.23; 1 Cor 15.23) Moses would not have been there bodily. He merely "appeared" to Peter, James and John -- by God's power he became visible to them. But the text does not suggest the idea that either Moses or Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies at the Transfiguration.

Brother Fisher,
You say "Moses would not have been there bodily". Surely the apperance of Moses bodily was not above what GOD is able to make occur.

If Moses was not there bodily at the Mount then was Elijah there bodily ?

We know from the Sacred Scriptures that Elijah was take up Bodily.
2 Kings 2:11
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

You mention JESUS being of the Firstfruits.Yes this statement is True and Scriptural I Agree. Yet of what was those who were Resurrected during JESUS' Ministry to yet go again to a Physical death. Because of what is given I ask Could not GOD have used Moses in such a way? I have NO DOUBT.

You stated:
"But the text does not suggest the idea that either Moses or Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies at the Transfiguration".

I would say the text not suggest otherwise.

The bodies in which Moses and Elijah showed up in were as tangible and physical enough for Peter to want to build Tabernacles for them to reside in for that time being.

[Ray]

Well, since Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection (Acts 26.23; 1 Cor 15.23) Moses would not have been there bodily. He merely "appeared" to Peter, James and John -- by God's power he became visible to them. But the text does not suggest the idea that either Moses or Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies at the Transfiguration.

I totally agree and I also agree with your initial post that the reason God wanted the angels to bury Moses is to prevent the Children of Israel from building any sort of monument to Moses or trying to preserve the body to honor or worship it. The probably knew how to mummify from the Egyptians and I can just imagine them building something like the ARK of covenant to carry Moses' body around in.

Brothers,
It was not Angels who buried Moses, GOD buried him.
Deuteronomy 34:4-6
4 And the Lord said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

I believe the dispute about Moses Body given in Jude's writing was done some time after Moses death.( Yet it could have been done the day of his death, one thing is certain it occured AFTER GOD buried him.)
Jude 1:9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

[titus213]

To me, the texts do suggest that both Moses and Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies. The reason I believe this is the fact that Peter wanted to build three tabernacles (or shelters)... One for Jesus, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. To me, it's clear that Peter thought both Moses and Elijah were there in tangible physical bodies. Otherwise, he wouldn't have thought they needed shelters.

They were not "shelters". They were meant to be tabernacles or memorials of this event (Peter actually didn't know what to say other than something like "Let's remember this occasion forever"). There is no connection to physical bodies whatsoever.

Moses wouldn't have needed to have partaken of the Fist Resurrection in order to appear on the mount any more than Elijah would have to have partaken. The scriptures give at least a few examples of folks being raised from the dead prior to Jesus' resurrection.

But Elijah didn't die. Moses did. And any others raised prior to Jesus' resurrection died again; Jesus was the first to rise from the dead in a glorified body, never to die again.

If a dead person were raised to life before Jesus was raised from the dead and caught up to Heaven like Enoch and Elijah, they could continue living in their natural bodies indefinitely.

Enoch and Elijah were not raised to life; they never died.


The idea of the First Resurrection does not prevent this any more than it prevented Jesus from raising Lazarus from the dead. Had Lazarus been caught up like Enoch and Elijah, he could still be alive in a natural body, in Heaven.

Lazarus was not caught up.

Those of us that that believe (like Clarence Larkin, see page 85 of his book, The Book of Revelation) that God raised Moses from the dead and took Moses to Heaven after Michael and Satan disputed over Moses' body are not required to believe that Moses was given an immortal body any more than we are required to believe that Enoch and Elijah were given immortal bodies when they were caught up.

Moses died and God buried the body. Nothing in the Bible hints at the fact that He changed His mind and raised him bodily from the dead.
And if God had raised Moses from the dead after making sure he was buried, then He certainly would have had to give Moses an immortal body, according to 1 Cor. 15.50: "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption". Enoch and Elijah did not require immortal bodies because they never died. Moses died and his body was buried. Completely different circumstances.

The idea of the First Resurrection does not in any way preclude the idea of Moses being raised from the dead and then taken to Heaven in a natural body.

Yes it does, for the reasons I have given. A non-glorified Moses could not be in heaven bodily. A glorified Moses had to await the resurrection of Jesus.

[Reuben]

To me, the texts do suggest that both Moses and Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies. The reason I believe this is the fact that Peter wanted to build three tabernacles (or shelters)... One for Jesus, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. To me, it's clear that Peter thought both Moses and Elijah were there in tangible physical bodies. Otherwise, he wouldn't have thought they needed shelters.

They were not "shelters". They were meant to be tabernacles or memorials of this event (Peter actually didn't know what to say other than something like "Let's remember this occasion forever"). There is no connection to physical bodies whatsoever.

Moses wouldn't have needed to have partaken of the Fist Resurrection in order to appear on the mount any more than Elijah would have to have partaken. The scriptures give at least a few examples of folks being raised from the dead prior to Jesus' resurrection.

But Elijah didn't die. Moses did. And any others raised prior to Jesus' resurrection died again; Jesus was the first to rise from the dead in a glorified body, never to die again.

If a dead person were raised to life before Jesus was raised from the dead and caught up to Heaven like Enoch and Elijah, they could continue living in their natural bodies indefinitely.

Enoch and Elijah were not raised to life; they never died.


The idea of the First Resurrection does not prevent this any more than it prevented Jesus from raising Lazarus from the dead. Had Lazarus been caught up like Enoch and Elijah, he could still be alive in a natural body, in Heaven.

Lazarus was not caught up.

Those of us that that believe (like Clarence Larkin, see page 85 of his book, The Book of Revelation) that God raised Moses from the dead and took Moses to Heaven after Michael and Satan disputed over Moses' body are not required to believe that Moses was given an immortal body any more than we are required to believe that Enoch and Elijah were given immortal bodies when they were caught up.

Moses died and God buried the body. Nothing in the Bible hints at the fact that He changed His mind and raised him bodily from the dead.
And if God had raised Moses from the dead after making sure he was buried, then He certainly would have had to give Moses an immortal body, according to 1 Cor. 15.50: "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption". Enoch and Elijah did not require immortal bodies because they never died. Moses died and his body was buried. Completely different circumstances.

The idea of the First Resurrection does not in any way preclude the idea of Moses being raised from the dead and then taken to Heaven in a natural body.

Yes it does, for the reasons I have given. A non-glorified Moses could not be in heaven bodily. A glorified Moses had to await the resurrection of Jesus.

A good post!!!

[Justaned]

To me, the texts do suggest that both Moses and Elijah showed up in tangible physical bodies. The reason I believe this is the fact that Peter wanted to build three tabernacles (or shelters)... One for Jesus, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. To me, it's clear that Peter thought both Moses and Elijah were there in tangible physical bodies. Otherwise, he wouldn't have thought they needed shelters.

They were not "shelters". They were meant to be tabernacles or memorials of this event (Peter actually didn't know what to say other than something like "Let's remember this occasion forever"). There is no connection to physical bodies whatsoever.

Moses wouldn't have needed to have partaken of the Fist Resurrection in order to appear on the mount any more than Elijah would have to have partaken. The scriptures give at least a few examples of folks being raised from the dead prior to Jesus' resurrection.

But Elijah didn't die. Moses did. And any others raised prior to Jesus' resurrection died again; Jesus was the first to rise from the dead in a glorified body, never to die again.

If a dead person were raised to life before Jesus was raised from the dead and caught up to Heaven like Enoch and Elijah, they could continue living in their natural bodies indefinitely.

Enoch and Elijah were not raised to life; they never died.


The idea of the First Resurrection does not prevent this any more than it prevented Jesus from raising Lazarus from the dead. Had Lazarus been caught up like Enoch and Elijah, he could still be alive in a natural body, in Heaven.

Lazarus was not caught up.

Those of us that that believe (like Clarence Larkin, see page 85 of his book, The Book of Revelation) that God raised Moses from the dead and took Moses to Heaven after Michael and Satan disputed over Moses' body are not required to believe that Moses was given an immortal body any more than we are required to believe that Enoch and Elijah were given immortal bodies when they were caught up.

Moses died and God buried the body. Nothing in the Bible hints at the fact that He changed His mind and raised him bodily from the dead.
And if God had raised Moses from the dead after making sure he was buried, then He certainly would have had to give Moses an immortal body, according to 1 Cor. 15.50: "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption". Enoch and Elijah did not require immortal bodies because they never died. Moses died and his body was buried. Completely different circumstances.

The idea of the First Resurrection does not in any way preclude the idea of Moses being raised from the dead and then taken to Heaven in a natural body.

Yes it does, for the reasons I have given. A non-glorified Moses could not be in heaven bodily. A glorified Moses had to await the resurrection of Jesus.

Again I totally agree with Fatherfisher on this.