Dake Bible Discussion BoardProof Text

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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bibleman
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Re: Proof Text

Post by bibleman »

scottae316 wrote:
bibleman wrote:
scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.
Hi Scott,

I believe that the Bible is our proof of our doctrine and our faith.

And I will still use Scripture to support my beliefs.

And as to Dake taking kindly to this Board representing his views? I think that he would or else I would take it down. Dake had to fight against people who did not believe the Bible his whole life long, not just a few people dropping by a internet Bible Discussion Board but professors, preachers and so called scholars themselves. Still Dake would always us the Bible to PROVE his doctrine. I think I will do the same.
Hi Leon,

First, where did I say that the Bible is not the basis or proof for doctrine or faith? I have always said that we should use the Bible and base our beliefs on it not the interpretations of people like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Hagin or Dake. Yes, we can read what those individual said about Scripture, but to base doctrine on something other than the Bible is wrong. Could you please point to where I said we should not use the Bible? Also, I never said one should not use the Bible to support ones beliefs, again can you show where I said that? Finally, if you would have actually read what I said instead of proof-texting, I never said that Dake would not use the Bible. What I clearly said was that Dake would not approve of the constant bickering, picking, and pulling out of context of what people say. Now if you think that Dake approved of Christians bickering, picking and pulling out of context what people say to make their point or one up someone could you please provide a reference for this from something written by Dake as I have a hard time believing that Dake would have done that?
Hi Scott,

If you think Dake would not approve of bickering... then stop doing it! (smile)

Love you brother!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Proof Text

Post by branham1965 »

RIGHT ON SCOTT!!!!!
SPEAK IT. +hammer +hammer +hammer this will be erased im sure.
scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.



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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Proof Text

Post by branham1965 »

NO OFFENCE Ed but i brought this up a long time ago and recently.im talking about PROOF TEXTS.
the Administrator reminds me of an old boss i once had.i even told my mother so in tea conversation.
Justaned wrote:Again let me give an excellent quote from Wikipedia about prooftexting
Prooftexting (sometimes "proof-texting" or "proof texting") is the practice of using isolated quotations from a document to establish a proposition. Using discrete quotations is generally seen as decontextualised. Critics note that such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author, and that a document quoted in such a manner may not in fact support the proposition for which it was cited when read as a whole.

This is to be distinguished from quotations from a source deemed a hostile witness, who inadvertently substantiates a point beneficial to his opponents in the course of his own narrative. Even when lifted out of context, those facts still stand.

Many ministers and teachers have used some version of the following humorous anecdote to demonstrate the dangers of prooftexting: "A man dissatisfied with his life decided to consult the Bible for guidance. Closing his eyes, he flipped the book open and pointed to a spot on the page. Opening his eyes, he read the verse under his finger. It read, "Then Judas went away and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5b) Closing his eyes again, the man randomly selected another verse. This one read, "Jesus told him, 'Go and do likewise.'" (Luke 10:37b)"
With that in mind if scripture does in fact say what someone claims it does, and that idea or doctrine is supportted by the testimony of two or three witnesses of other scripture and if it does not violate the overall agreement of all of scripture then yes it valid use of the text.



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Justaned
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Re: Proof Text

Post by Justaned »

scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

Whew! a breath of fresh air!!!!!!!!

Scott
You hit the nail on the head exactly and I do agree with you. I would imagine if Dake ever saw this board which carries his name being conducted in the way that has been he would want to puke.Edited to include the comment below

And I see true to form Bibleman has already tried to reverse the table and make the problem all yours.

Nothing will change until leadership changes and leads by example. As long as leadership tries to "one up" everyone will forward suit. As long as leadership puts word in people mouths then everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership nit picks everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership makes inflammatory remarks everyone else will follow suit. That is just the way this world and our minds work.



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bibleman
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Re: Proof Text

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

Whew! a breath of fresh air!!!!!!!!

Scott
You hit the nail on the head exactly and I do agree with you. I would imagine if Dake ever saw this board which carries his name being conducted in the way that has been he would want to puke.Edited to include the comment below

And I see true to form Bibleman has already tried to reverse the table and make the problem all yours.

Nothing will change until leadership changes and leads by example. As long as leadership tries to "one up" everyone will forward suit. As long as leadership puts word in people mouths then everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership nit picks everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership makes inflammatory remarks everyone else will follow suit. That is just the way this world and our minds work.

Hi Ed,

Why do you follow "leadership" and why do you let "leadership" put words in your mouth?

Stand up, and speak your own mind.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Proof Text

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

Whew! a breath of fresh air!!!!!!!!

Scott
You hit the nail on the head exactly and I do agree with you. I would imagine if Dake ever saw this board which carries his name being conducted in the way that has been he would want to puke.Edited to include the comment below

And I see true to form Bibleman has already tried to reverse the table and make the problem all yours.

Nothing will change until leadership changes and leads by example. As long as leadership tries to "one up" everyone will forward suit. As long as leadership puts word in people mouths then everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership nit picks everyone else will follow suit. As long as leadership makes inflammatory remarks everyone else will follow suit. That is just the way this world and our minds work.

Hi Ed,

Why do you follow "leadership" and why do you let "leadership" put words in your mouth?

Stand up, and speak your own mind.
Bibleman
I don't often follow leadership, and I never allow anyone to put words in my mouth. That is often why I'm viewed to be so controversial on this forum.



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scottae316
Wrestle Against Spiritual Wickedness in High Places
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Re: Proof Text

Post by scottae316 »

bibleman wrote:
scottae316 wrote:
bibleman wrote:
scottae316 wrote:Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.
Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?
Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.
Hi Scott,

I believe that the Bible is our proof of our doctrine and our faith.

And I will still use Scripture to support my beliefs.

And as to Dake taking kindly to this Board representing his views? I think that he would or else I would take it down. Dake had to fight against people who did not believe the Bible his whole life long, not just a few people dropping by a internet Bible Discussion Board but professors, preachers and so called scholars themselves. Still Dake would always us the Bible to PROVE his doctrine. I think I will do the same.
Hi Leon,

First, where did I say that the Bible is not the basis or proof for doctrine or faith? I have always said that we should use the Bible and base our beliefs on it not the interpretations of people like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Hagin or Dake. Yes, we can read what those individual said about Scripture, but to base doctrine on something other than the Bible is wrong. Could you please point to where I said we should not use the Bible? Also, I never said one should not use the Bible to support ones beliefs, again can you show where I said that? Finally, if you would have actually read what I said instead of proof-texting, I never said that Dake would not use the Bible. What I clearly said was that Dake would not approve of the constant bickering, picking, and pulling out of context of what people say. Now if you think that Dake approved of Christians bickering, picking and pulling out of context what people say to make their point or one up someone could you please provide a reference for this from something written by Dake as I have a hard time believing that Dake would have done that?
Hi Scott,

If you think Dake would not approve of bickering... then stop doing it! (smile)

Love you brother!
Hi Leon,

Thanks love you too bro. I know this is a waste but I'll do it anyway, could you show me how I am bickering? Also Leon, thanks for being consistent and proving my points.



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scottae316
Wrestle Against Spiritual Wickedness in High Places
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:21 am

Re: Proof Text

Post by scottae316 »

dolph wrote:Ed, you've never been controversial on this panel. A loose canon, maybe, but controversial? We all know your an A.G.
I agree dolph, controversial would probably describe me more than Ed.



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Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Proof Text

Post by Justaned »

dolph wrote:Ed, you've never been controversial on this panel. A loose canon, maybe, but controversial? We all know your an A.G.
And we all know you will say most anything, most of time a distortion of the truth, to get a rise out of people.



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