Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ God's role in sickness - Permissive or Causative

[macca]

Well glory to God give me a bucket of sickness Lord and keep me humble.
Take away my health so i know how others feel that have no faith.
Don't let me have too much wealth Lord so i don't get greedy.
Praise God for my thorn in my flesh for i am in good company with Paul.
Whatever happens to me Lord i know it is your will for my good.
Halalujah

Beaten down macca

[branham1965]

the cds are the devil's spirit and the sins of Cain.they are NOT along the line i was...

“The Salvation of Angels” by Pastor Michael A. Wiley.

CHARISMATICS are the most naive gullible lackeys on earth.they will fall for anything.ANYTHING.i am one so i can say it.everything i say here had relevance to my existence.and is if possible to help a soul here or there.even Balaam's * spoke truth.
let some flake say God took them here there and everywhere or some other homosexual doctrine and they latch on like hungry wolves.ANGELS needing salvation nothing but what Professor Paul S.L.Johnson taught in his Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures volumes 1-17 until his death in 1950!!!!!!!!!!and you can bet that Wiley Coyote could not begin to touch the immense intellect Johnson had.no way.and both were-are

i posted the Word on here we see thru a glass darkly now then in Heaven... and it was ignored by everyone.this side of Eden we see through a glass darkly.Paul said this.the Apostle Paul said so!!!!TOTALLY IGNORED.pathetic it is.
and when God vindicates His servants and prophets and He confirms them 100%%% the same rebels will reject them!!!!! see they trace back to old CAIN.
thats why people oppose the Word.its the spirit of CAIN.CAIN!!!!!
I HAVE CDS ABOUT IT TO ANYONE INTERESTED BY GODS SERVANT ....ERNEST ANGLEY.

This idea that Jesus became a man so that He could die to save fallen angels is purely a figment of Michael A Wiley's imagination. I wouldn't waste one moment of my time reading any of it. Fiction is all it will be. It amazes me how some pastors come up with more than God Himself has revealed in His Word?

The Bible is very clear as to what will happen to sinners including fallen angels.

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" (2 Peter 2:4).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matt. 25:41).

[Justaned]

REVED WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???

THIS BOARD DONT WORK WITHOUT YOU.

Sitting watching and praying for God's mercy on what some have said.

have i failed.

No Billy I wasn't talking about you.

[victoryword]

Well glory to God give me a bucket of sickness Lord and keep me humble.
Take away my health so i know how others feel that have no faith.
Don't let me have too much wealth Lord so i don't get greedy.
Praise God for my thorn in my flesh for i am in good company with Paul.
Whatever happens to me Lord i know it is your will for my good.
Halalujah

Beaten down macca

[Justaned]

Sickness is not GOd's doing. God is in the healing business.

I agree with this statement.

How can I fight against the works of the devil when the devil has deceived me into thinking that his works are from God?

Most sickness isn't brought on the Satan directly but because we live in a fallen world. Why must a sickness always be assigned to God or Satan? Sickness is a part of the this fallen world and until this world is destroyed by fire and reconstructed as God originally intended sickness will exist.

We can bring on sickness ourselves such as by smoking or allowing a sick person to cough in his hand then skaking his hand than then touching our hand to our mouth.

God is both permissive because God allows sickness to exist and causative because God cursed the earth as our punishment for the fall.

But God has also given our bodies immune systems, doctors and medicines, vaccines and other things like the wisdom to wash our hands use antiseptics, and such.

God also performs healings and had promised us sickness does not exist in heaven.

I love these philsophical discussion on the cause of sickness. We live in a fallen world in mortal bodies and we are going to get sick and die one day unless the Lord comes back first.

[Justaned]

Answer these questions in your silly philosophical debates

God gave our bodies a most wonderous defense system from attacks from disease carrying things. Why? God also gave us medicine, doctors and surgeons, diagnostic techniques and machines. Why? Our bodies have miraclous recuperative and regenative powers and we wonder about God.Why?

If we were never going to get sick why did God give our bodies the ability to generate antibodies to fight foreign things in our bodied? Why did God give us doctors, medicine, hospitals, diagnostic machines and such?

Why did God create some bacteria to fight fungus that invades our skin, or tiny bugs that eat our dead skin to keep the world from being covered with dead skin?

Why is there a tree of life and its leaves that are used to heal the nations?

[victoryword]

Sickness is not GOd's doing. God is in the healing business.

I agree with this statement.

How can I fight against the works of the devil when the devil has deceived me into thinking that his works are from God?

Most sickness isn't brought on the Satan directly but because we live in a fallen world. Why must a sickness always be assigned to God or Satan? Sickness is a part of the this fallen world and until this world is destroyed by fire and reconstructed as God originally intended sickness will exist.

The Bible says that Satan is the "god" and "prince" of this fallen world. Jesus attributed healing and deliverance as the sign of His kingdom. IT seems to me that Jesus and the apostles attributed to Satan as the cause and therefore Christians should as well (Please see Acts 10:38; Luke 13:16). God says that Satan is the author of sin to include lying and murdering. I may sin of my own free-will but since Satan is the originator of the whole scheme of sin, then he receives ultimate responsibility (Please see 1 John 3:8; John 8:44; 1 John 2:16).

God is both permissive because God allows sickness to exist and causative because God cursed the earth as our punishment for the fall.

No where does Scripture say that God cursed the earth. God puts the whole responsibility of a cursed earth upon man:

• And to Adam He said, Because you have listened and given heed to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it, the ground is under a curse because of you; in sorrow and toil shall you eat [of the fruits] of it all the days of your life. (Gen. 3:17; Amplified Bible)
  
  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Rom. 5:12)

God takes no responsibility upon Himself for the curse, sin, or death entering into this world. Man was God's vice-regent and failed in his duty to God, thus allowing an enemy to enter into the world he was supposed to guard and take over. God has no causation whatsoever in the role of sickness. His role is merely permissive.

[victoryword]

Answer these questions in your silly philosophical debates

God gave our bodies a most wonderous defense system from attacks from disease carrying things. Why? God also gave us medicine, doctors and surgeons, diagnostic techniques and machines. Why? Our bodies have miraclous recuperative and regenative powers and we wonder about God.Why?

If we were never going to get sick why did God give our bodies the ability to generate antibodies to fight foreign things in our bodied? Why did God give us doctors, medicine, hospitals, diagnostic machines and such?

Why did God create some bacteria to fight fungus that invades our skin, or tiny bugs that eat our dead skin to keep the world from being covered with dead skin?

Why is there a tree of life and its leaves that are used to heal the nations?

God never intended for sin to come into this world but had a provision for it anyway. Same thing with sickness.

If anything, the facts you state in your questions show that sickness has never been God's will and that He hates it so much that He has made a number of provisions - both natural and supernatural - to fight against it.

[Justaned]

Answer these questions in your silly philosophical debates

God gave our bodies a most wonderous defense system from attacks from disease carrying things. Why? God also gave us medicine, doctors and surgeons, diagnostic techniques and machines. Why? Our bodies have miraclous recuperative and regenative powers and we wonder about God.Why?

If we were never going to get sick why did God give our bodies the ability to generate antibodies to fight foreign things in our bodied? Why did God give us doctors, medicine, hospitals, diagnostic machines and such?

Why did God create some bacteria to fight fungus that invades our skin, or tiny bugs that eat our dead skin to keep the world from being covered with dead skin?

Why is there a tree of life and its leaves that are used to heal the nations?

God never intended for sin to come into this world but had a provision for it anyway. Same thing with sickness.

If anything, the facts you state in your questions show that sickness has never been God's will and that He hates it so much that He has made a number of provisions - both natural and supernatural - to fight against it.

You obviously ascribe to the theory God lost control of the earth he created and owns. If God isn't in control then why do you pray to HIm to change your situations? I mean if God's hands are tied as you seem to suggest then how can God change anything you pray about? You have a far lower opinion of God than I do, my God owns the cattle on a thousand hills along with owning the hills, My God is in control and my God is totally sovereign. As scripture says God does as he pleases.

[victoryword]

You obviously ascribe to the theory God lost control of the earth he created and owns. If God isn't in control then why do you pray to HIm to change your situations? I mean if God's hands are tied as you seem to suggest then how can God change anything you pray about? You have a far lower opinion of God than I do, my God owns the cattle on a thousand hills along with owning the hills, My God is in control and my God is totally sovereign. As scripture says God does as he pleases.

Because God delegated His authority in the earth to men and expect them to exercise it (Gen. 1:26-28). We exercise the will of God through prayer (Matt. 6:10; Eze. 22:30; James 4:2). God does not take back His authority that He has given to others nor does He do what He has delegated to others to do (Rom. 11:29).

He owns the earth but that does not mean that He is controlling everything that happens on the earth. I own my house but I am not controlling everything my wife and kids do. Each member of my household has delegated responsibilities. Furthermore even though I own my home I never enter any of my daughter's rooms without knocking and being invited in. Jesus does the same thing (Rev. 2:20).

Doing what He pleases does not mean that everything done on the earth pleases God. For example, He has clearly said that He is not pleased with the death of the wicked. Yet, the wicked are dying everyday. In another passages of Scripture He said that He cannot be pleased apart from faith. Yet there are billions of faithless men in the world.

Scripture refutes your Calvinistic concept of an all-controlling deity. Stop reading the Calvinist junk that you claim you don't believe but advocate and get back into Scripture.