Dake Bible Discussion BoardGap Creationism

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victoryword
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by victoryword »

frenchie wrote:Hi!

Jeremiah 4:23-26 (KJV)
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

3. The mountains and hills have been moved and will yet be moved by earthquakes, but there never has been a time since Adam to this day, nor will there ever be a time from our day into all eternity that the earth has been or will be without a man, bird, or fruitful place, as seen by Jeremiah, and referred to in Jer. 4:25. Therefore, we are required by facts to associate Jer. 4:23-26 with the same time as that of Gen. 1:2; and we are made to realize that there were men, birds, and fruitful places on the earth before Adam's time that were destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:2; 2Pet. 3:5-7.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.

4. The earth was created to be inhabited (Isa. 45:18); and it was inhabited from the beginning by man who lived in cities (Jer. 4:25-26), by nations (Isa. 14:12-14), and a social system, the members of which were mortal and therefore capable of being drowned (2Pet. 3:5-7); they were beings Adam could replace, for he was commanded to replenish the earth (Gen. 1:27-28). It is clear that the earth became desolate and empty after its original habitation of Gen. 1:1. That is, it was cursed as in Gen. 1:2, and later restored to a second habitable state and replenished as in Gen. 1:3 -- Gen. 2:25. Therefore, it is only logical to associate Jer. 4:23-26 of this book with Gen. 1:2 and agree that it was the original earth referred to in both passages.

5. One thing is certain -- Jer. 4:23-26 could not apply to the time of Noah, for at that time the heavens had lights, and there were men, birds, and fruitful places left on the earth after the flood; whereas, in the case of the curse brought upon the original earth, none of these things remained.

Therefore, if we rightly divide the Word of Truth we should associate Jer. 4:23-26 with Gen. 1:2 and 2Pet. 3:5-6, recognizing that there had been light, fixed mountains and hills, men, birds, fruitful places, and cities on the earth before this curse, and before Adam and the six-day work of restoration to a second habitable state as in Gen. 1:3 -- Gen. 2:25.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.
Frenchie, thanks. Not sure how I overlooked Dake's statements in this particular area. I have already taught all of the references he cites in my Bible study but still had trouble being able to prove dogmatically that there was a pre-adamite human race. For all we know, this could be talking about angels.

Don't get me wrong, I lean strongly towards believing that there was one, but wish there was a more explicit statement rather than inferences being made from the passages that clearly prove the gap itself.



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frenchie
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by frenchie »

Hi!
Also,i think i mentionned this previously on the board. I recall having read that in the hebrew language, to replenish you have to use the same thing that was plenish previously.
For example: if you have a glass of water, you empty it and then fill it with milk, you are plenishing it. To replenish it,you must fill it with water again. Thus Adam had to replenish the earth with the same kind that was.

I'm prety sure i got this from Mr.Dake but i can't find where. Maybe someone could help.

Thanks!



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Justaned
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by Justaned »

frenchie wrote:Hi!

Jeremiah 4:23-26 (KJV)
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

3. The mountains and hills have been moved and will yet be moved by earthquakes, but there never has been a time since Adam to this day, nor will there ever be a time from our day into all eternity that the earth has been or will be without a man, bird, or fruitful place, as seen by Jeremiah, and referred to in Jer. 4:25. Therefore, we are required by facts to associate Jer. 4:23-26 with the same time as that of Gen. 1:2; and we are made to realize that there were men, birds, and fruitful places on the earth before Adam's time that were destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:2; 2Pet. 3:5-7.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.
however that statement disagrees with
2 Peter 3:5-10 (NKJV)
5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
That says this earth will be totally consumed by fire.



titus213
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by titus213 »

As to Adam being the first man, chronologically speaking... We know that that cannot be the case because "the LORD is a man" (Ex. 15:3 and other scriptures...). Chronologically speaking, the the LORD is the First Man, not Adam.

Well, you didn't quote Exodus 15:3 correctly. It doesn't say "the LORD is a man". It says "the LORD is a man of war", no doubt a reference to the LORD having just proved himself to be Israel's hero in the battle with Pharaoh, as Dake points out in his note to this verse. I could just as well quote the verse in Numbers 23:19 which tells us "God is not a man" and leave it at that, but that would also be unfair. What it actually says is: "God is not a man . . . that he should lie."

Again, as Dake points out there in Numbers, "truly God is not a man but a Spirit being, as taught by Jesus".

The meaning of the Incarnation of Jesus was that, for the first time, God became a man.



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Justaned
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by Justaned »

fatherfisher wrote:As to Adam being the first man, chronologically speaking... We know that that cannot be the case because "the LORD is a man" (Ex. 15:3 and other scriptures...). Chronologically speaking, the the LORD is the First Man, not Adam.

Well, you didn't quote Exodus 15:3 correctly. It doesn't say "the LORD is a man". It says "the LORD is a man of war", no doubt a reference to the LORD having just proved himself to be Israel's hero in the battle with Pharaoh, as Dake points out in his note to this verse. I could just as well quote the verse in Numbers 23:19 which tells us "God is not a man" and leave it at that, but that would also be unfair. What it actually says is: "God is not a man . . . that he should lie."

Again, as Dake points out there in Numbers, "truly God is not a man but a Spirit being, as taught by Jesus".

The meaning of the Incarnation of Jesus was that, for the first time, God became a man.
I totally agree and I have never accepted the idea God is a man. Way too Mormonish for me.



victoryword
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by victoryword »

Both are true. God is a man if you believe, as I do, in the incarnation and deity of Jesus the Messiah.

However, God was not originally a man. He became a man in order to redeem us.

The Father and Holy Spirit are not men:
  • God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (NUm. 23:19)



victoryword
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by victoryword »

Alright back on topic. Let me copy and paste something from the outline that I will be teaching from (will have the whole outline on our church's web page soon):
  • a. The origin of demons: Some believe that fallen angels and demons are the same. Others believe that that the fallen angels and the demons are two distinct entities.

    b. The latter belief is that fallen angels remain as they were originally created but demons are the result of either a disembodied preadamic race that lived on the earth before the ruin in Genesis 1:2 or the disembodied offspring of the sexual union between angels and humans called Nephilim (Gen. 6:1-4).

    c. Certainly Satan had a number of angels follow him in his rebellion against God (Matt. 25:41; Luke 10:17-20; 2 Cor. 12:7; Eph. 6:10-16; Rev. 12:3-4, 7-11). However, a number of other scholars argue that angels have ethereal bodies and have no need to possess a human body as demons do, thus the demons have to be the disembodied spirits from a pre-adamite race (or descendants of the Nephilim).

    d. The Biblical arguments for the above: Difference between angels and demons (Acts 23:9); the intense need of demons to possess a human body or the body of an animal (Matt. 17:14-18; Mark 9:25; Luke 8:26-33; 11:24-26). Satan and fallen angels do not appear to have that need or desire (Dan. 10:12-13; Rev. 2:13).
Thoughts?



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frenchie
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by frenchie »

[quote="victoryword"]Alright back on topic. Let me copy and paste something from the outline that I will be teaching from (will have the whole outline on our church's web page soon):
  • a. The origin of demons: Some believe that fallen angels and demons are the same. Others believe that that the fallen angels and the demons are two distinct entities.

    b. The latter belief is that fallen angels remain as they were originally created but demons are the result of either a disembodied preadamic race that lived on the earth before the ruin in Genesis 1:2 or the disembodied offspring of the sexual union between angels and humans called Nephilim (Gen. 6:1-4).

    c. Certainly Satan had a number of angels follow him in his rebellion against God (Matt. 25:41; Luke 10:17-20; 2 Cor. 12:7; Eph. 6:10-16; Rev. 12:3-4, 7-11). However, a number of other scholars argue that angels have ethereal bodies and have no need to possess a human body as demons do, thus the demons have to be the disembodied spirits from a pre-adamite race (or descendants of the Nephilim).

    d. The Biblical arguments for the above: Difference between angels and demons (Acts 23:9); the intense need of demons to possess a human body or the body of an animal (Matt. 17:14-18; Mark 9:25; Luke 8:26-33; 11:24-26). Satan and fallen angels do not appear to have that need or desire (Dan. 10:12-13; Rev. 2:13).
Thoughts?[/quote


I agree with everything you said above. I think that demons are disembodied spirits of the pre-adamites and/or the giants that where the offspring of the falen angels and the daughthers of men, that the falen angels have a spirit body made of eternal material substance of a higher degree of creation than our natural flesh,the same kind of body we are promised when the trump shall sound. I wish i had more scripture to confirm that the pre-adamites nations where as human as us to.
Everything i know on this mater come from Mr.Dake, i dont know of any other comentator that shed as much light on the subject and it leaves me on my appetite for more. :smile:



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branham1965
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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by branham1965 »

I AGREE with you.
God the Son was manifested in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16.The Father is a Spirit Being .As is the Holy Ghost also.
THE LORD JESUS IS NOW HIGHLY EXALTED AND GLORIFIED BUT RETAINS BOTH HIS DEITY AND HUMANITY FOR ETERNITY.
This is incredible what He did for mankind.Actually many men and women have lost their minds completely trying to fathom the Mysteries of God.

victoryword wrote:Both are true. God is a man if you believe, as I do, in the incarnation and deity of Jesus the Messiah.

However, God was not originally a man. He became a man in order to redeem us.

The Father and Holy Spirit are not men:
  • God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (NUm. 23:19)



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Re: Gap Creationism

Post by Ironman »

Is God like a man? We men are made in His image and likeness. While we are not God, nor is God a mere man, we are like God in appearence, in our free moral agency, in our desires, in our ability to love, to hate, to personally choose how we act and how we can address every issue in our lives, how we can design and make or create things.

Jacob saw with his own eyes a man and he wrestled with a man all night long and Jacon realised later that he he wrestled with God and his life was preserved.

"And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Genesis 32:24-30).


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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