Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ antichrist of the 70 weeks

[bibleman]

why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???

Hi Billy,

I think the answer is that those who do not understand the 70 weeks of Daniel just have not studied the Scriptures on the subject or else they just have their mind made up before they approach the Bible.

The key is that the 6 events of Daniel 9 must be fulfilled before the 70 weeks are over, and since they have not been fulfilled, then of course when Messiah was cut off at the end of the 69th week, there must be one more week (7 years) to complete the prophecy.

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.

5. Six things to be done in the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan. 9:24):

(1) "To finish (put an end to) the transgression." The Hebrew word pesha` (HSN-<H6588>) means revolt; rebel; sin against lawful authority. It is often translated "transgression" (Ps. 51:1; Isa. 43:25; etc.). This transgression has reference to the sins of Israel at Jerusalem, the culmination of their sins when they will be saved from all sin at the return of their Messiah who will turn ungodliness from Jacob and convert the nation in a day (Rom. 11:25-29; Isa. 66:7-10; Ezek. 36:24-30).

(2) "To make an end of sins" concerning Israel and Jerusalem. This has never been done, but will be accomplished at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zech. 14). The Spirit of repentance will be poured out upon Israel just before the second coming, and a fountain for sin and uncleanness will be opened to the whole nation at that time (Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Rom. 11:25-29).

(3) "To make reconciliation (atonement; Hebrew: kaphar (HSN-<H3722>), to cover; make atonement) for iniquity." This was done for Israel and all others on the cross (Isa. 53; Col. 1:20; 2:14-17; 1Pet. 2:24), but Israel as a nation has not yet experienced this covering for sin. They will be fully reconciled to God at the second coming of Christ (Isa. 1:18-20; 66:7-8; Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Mt. 23:37-39; Rom. 11:25-29).

(4) "To bring in everlasting righteousness." When transgression comes to an end, when an end of sins is made, and when full atonement for all sin is experienced by Israel, then everlasting righteousness concerning Israel and Jerusalem will be ushered in (Isa. 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14,18,27; Ezek. 43:7; Zech. 14; Lk. 1:32-33; Rom. 11:25-29; Rev. 11:15; Rev. 19:11 -- Rev. 20:10; Rev. 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5).

(5) "To seal up the vision and prophecy." The prophecies concerning Israel and Jerusalem and their eternal restoration under their Messiah will be fulfilled. The word for "prophecy" here should have been translated "prophet." It could also mean that there will be no more need for inspired men to rebuke Israel at Jerusalem in the attempt to lead them to God and righteousness when the Messiah comes, "for all shall know the Lord from the least unto the greatest of them" (Isa. 11:9; 66:7-10; Jer. 31:31-40; Rom. 11:25-29).

(6) "To anoint the most holy." This refers to the cleansing of the holy of holies, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem from the abomination of desolation, the sacrilege of Gentiles; and to the anointing of the Millennial temple of Ezek. 40-43; Zech. 6:12-13. "The most holy" is never used of a person, nor would the Jews ever associate this term with their Messiah who is always distinguished by the simple title, Messiah. Therefore, to teach that this refers to man crowning Christ is out of harmony with Scripture. Man is not to anoint and crown Christ. This has already been done by God the Father (Lk. 22:29; Acts 1:7; 2:36; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 11:15; 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14). Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 9".

Hi Bibleman,

You said to Billy

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.

But then you quote from the notes of the Dake Bible. Are you saying that Daniel spoke through Dake, or that Dake's notes are the same as Scripture? You have done this in the past and I would like to know your thinking.

Hi Scott,

Of course Daniel did NOT speak through Dake.

No Dake's notes are not the same as Scripture.

And no I have never done that in the past.

It is just that Dake listed the 6 things that need to be fulfilled according to Daniel's prophecy.

But I think you know that - just trying to hassle me I assume!

But it is funny reading it! thanks for the laugh.

[branham1965]

i have the same blank look on my face now as when the nuns used to knee me in the jewels or pull my hair...or my ear half off or hit pressure points do other jujutsu tricks to hurt us in Catholic School.



Sister Warren constantly called us especially me a "smarty".Mike Cameneti and i drove Sister Noreen to near madness in her class.Mike now is a Rhema Pastor of a big Church in NE Ohio.


the meanest nun was at St.Cyril's and i cant remember her name...the Penguin...she was the one who full bore groin shot me in 5th grade.im not sure how she did it.i think it was a hand blow.if her knee was employed i should have saw her habit=black penguin uniform move but she was fast.and deceptive.it hurt so bad i could not respond and talk to her.i had never felt such pain south of the border ...in fact...it hurts now recalling it.it seemed after this id always get it there in fights.

how could i have known she would pull a JKD trick on me.attack commencing with distraction lead is a Bruce Lee trick!!!here this mean nun knew it!!!!she hit me with fury.hard.Haz knows how mean those penguins and padres can be.
i told my folks and got another beating from dad.
after this... i became an altar boy to become a better boy.

[branham1965]

i feel honored to be in three different posts here.it makes my day.i mean that.i do.im strutting.thank you Gentlemen. PTL:scatter:
i wish i understood this better.i need to read these again....actually more than that i was going to come to Ohio State in 1980.i would have needed a Math tutor.im sure others as well.Math was the Davinci code to me.my mother used to beat me ...whoop me over it.then dad would get home wake me up from faked sleep and id get whooped....i was scared half to death to fail in school or Math.if Bill and Rosemary would have stayed together...who knows...

when my folks split and took off Granny and Grandpa and Great Granny (God love them ) were more...lenient.
this Eschatology..... its like Math or Algebra to me in Catholic School.

why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???

Hi Billy,

I think the answer is that those who do not understand the 70 weeks of Daniel just have not studied the Scriptures on the subject or else they just have their mind made up before they approach the Bible.

The key is that the 6 events of Daniel 9 must be fulfilled before the 70 weeks are over, and since they have not been fulfilled, then of course when Messiah was cut off at the end of the 69th week, there must be one more week (7 years) to complete the prophecy.

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.

5. Six things to be done in the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan. 9:24):

(1) "To finish (put an end to) the transgression." The Hebrew word pesha` (HSN-<H6588>) means revolt; rebel; sin against lawful authority. It is often translated "transgression" (Ps. 51:1; Isa. 43:25; etc.). This transgression has reference to the sins of Israel at Jerusalem, the culmination of their sins when they will be saved from all sin at the return of their Messiah who will turn ungodliness from Jacob and convert the nation in a day (Rom. 11:25-29; Isa. 66:7-10; Ezek. 36:24-30).

(2) "To make an end of sins" concerning Israel and Jerusalem. This has never been done, but will be accomplished at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zech. 14). The Spirit of repentance will be poured out upon Israel just before the second coming, and a fountain for sin and uncleanness will be opened to the whole nation at that time (Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Rom. 11:25-29).

(3) "To make reconciliation (atonement; Hebrew: kaphar (HSN-<H3722>), to cover; make atonement) for iniquity." This was done for Israel and all others on the cross (Isa. 53; Col. 1:20; 2:14-17; 1Pet. 2:24), but Israel as a nation has not yet experienced this covering for sin. They will be fully reconciled to God at the second coming of Christ (Isa. 1:18-20; 66:7-8; Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Mt. 23:37-39; Rom. 11:25-29).

(4) "To bring in everlasting righteousness." When transgression comes to an end, when an end of sins is made, and when full atonement for all sin is experienced by Israel, then everlasting righteousness concerning Israel and Jerusalem will be ushered in (Isa. 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14,18,27; Ezek. 43:7; Zech. 14; Lk. 1:32-33; Rom. 11:25-29; Rev. 11:15; Rev. 19:11 -- Rev. 20:10; Rev. 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5).

(5) "To seal up the vision and prophecy." The prophecies concerning Israel and Jerusalem and their eternal restoration under their Messiah will be fulfilled. The word for "prophecy" here should have been translated "prophet." It could also mean that there will be no more need for inspired men to rebuke Israel at Jerusalem in the attempt to lead them to God and righteousness when the Messiah comes, "for all shall know the Lord from the least unto the greatest of them" (Isa. 11:9; 66:7-10; Jer. 31:31-40; Rom. 11:25-29).

(6) "To anoint the most holy." This refers to the cleansing of the holy of holies, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem from the abomination of desolation, the sacrilege of Gentiles; and to the anointing of the Millennial temple of Ezek. 40-43; Zech. 6:12-13. "The most holy" is never used of a person, nor would the Jews ever associate this term with their Messiah who is always distinguished by the simple title, Messiah. Therefore, to teach that this refers to man crowning Christ is out of harmony with Scripture. Man is not to anoint and crown Christ. This has already been done by God the Father (Lk. 22:29; Acts 1:7; 2:36; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 11:15; 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14). Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 9".

Hi Bibleman,

You said to Billy

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.

But then you quote from the notes of the Dake Bible. Are you saying that Daniel spoke through Dake, or that Dake's notes are the same as Scripture? You have done this in the past and I would like to know your thinking.

Hi Scott,

Of course Daniel did NOT speak through Dake.

No Dake's notes are not the same as Scripture.

And no I have never done that in the past.

It is just that Dake listed the 6 things that need to be fulfilled according to Daniel's prophecy.

But I think you know that - just trying to hassle me I assume!

But it is funny reading it! thanks for the laugh.

[Ray]

Ray, the Messiah is cut off after the 69th week and before the 70th week, during the 2,000 year gap between the two. It was probably one second after the 69th week expired. I told you this more than once.

Brother Dolph,
Yea, Brother but what you told me more than once is NOT what is found in the verses of Scripture.

You say : "Messiah is cut off after the 69th week (yes, according to Scripture)"and before the 70th week" (nowhere in scripture) "during the 2000 year gap between the two" (nowhere in scripture)"it was probably one second after the 69th week expired" (cannot be according to the Scriptures)

Dolph,
Look close at verse 25:
Daniel 9:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Please Let me know if you still cannot see what is Clearly given in the verse but has been HID in much of man's commentary:

( the word "unto" in verse 25 above is "until" in the New King James, and The New American Standard the word "till" is used in place of "unto" in the Young's Literal Translation and The Wycliffe Bible )

CLEARY 69 weeks "shall be" (69weeks was to be) contained in the time
between the " commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto (or until) the Messiah the Prince ".

Look again 69weeks was completed , finished, over, done with, BEFORE
"Messiah the Prince" (69weeks was finished Before JESUS' proclaimed to be Messiah)

JESUS after HIS Baptism, and after the wilderness temptation, BEFORE HIS Ministry made a proclimation found in Luke 4:

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


NOTE: the word "anoint" in Luke 4:18 is in the Greek chrio or christos where we get the english word "Christ" meaning : consenctated one ,consecrating Jesus to the Messianic office, and furnishing him with the necessary powers for its administration.

In the hebrew "anointed" is Mishchah and is where we get the english word " Messiah"

[bibleman]

Hi Ray,

I know the Daniel 9 prophecy is confusing to you right now but if you would just open your mind to the Truth of the WORD you would see it.

Until then you will continue to be frustrated no matter how many people give you the truth of the prophecy.

But don't fear many people have been where you are and one day when they really got serious about the Word of God the Light came on!

I pray it will for you as well.

Study this chart, open your mind, get your Bible out, read the references and your confusion will be cleared up.

[Ray]

Ray, Luke 4:17-21 has nothing to do with the Messiah being cut off or crucified, or cut-off.

Verse 25 says it would be 69 weeks from the commandment to restore, to the Messiah. This could be His birth, baptism, Luke 4:17-21 or the cross, it doesn't matter.

Verse 26 says after the 69 weeks Messiah will be cut-off/crucified. That could be anytime after His birth, baptism, Luke 4:17-21 or the cross.

Any combo you choose can leave a future week that hasn't transpired yet and a approx. 2,000 year gap between the 69th and the 70th week.

If you use Luke 4:17-21 as the end of the 69 weeks, that's fine. (Dan 9:25) Then, after Luke 4:17-21 can be the cross without it being in the 70th week of Daniel. The gap of 2,000 years, then, would simply begin after Luke 4:17-21. No problemo.

Your problem is that your mind won't accept the possibility of a gap between the 69 and 70th, which has to be because the six conditions of the 70 weeks have yet to be fulfilled.

Dolph,
You really need to think about what you wrote above and see how much sense it makes.

You said "Your problem is that your mind won't accept the possibility of a gap between the 69 and 70th,"

The reason my mind won't accept it is because the Scriptures as written of JESUS' Ministry, Death, and Resurrection and What HE accomplished in HIS First Advent and what is Clearly given in Daniel 9:24-27 can NO WAY allow it.

[Ray]

Hello Dolph,
You wrote:
"Ray, many times one has to take several scriptures in the Bible and put them together in such a way that they all harmonize and none are done violence."
{Not just many times, but all the time.}

"God stopped dealing with Israel and turned to the Church after the cross."
{The question "I" think one should ask is WHY ? Why did JESUS Come to Israel ONLY, Why did the Apostles in their early ministy go Only to those of Israel, and then turn to the Gentiles ? Is there any OT Prophecy speaking of an allotted time of GOD dealing with Israel Only ? Hint Daniel 9:24-27}

"But Paul said God is not done with the Jews and that all Israel would be saved."
{True, Paul even mentions (paraphrase) "look I am a Jew of the tribe of Benjmen and GOD is using me" and Yea even You yourself agree that the Church is Spiritual Israel, GOD is Spirit and those that are HIS is Spiritual not Carnal. If the TRUE Church is CLEARLY Spiritual Israel and we all know and all agree that ALL The TRUE Church will be Saved, Could it not be The Church The Spiritual Israel that Paul spoke of ALL BEING SAVED ??? }

"The Jews have returned to the Holy Land after being dispersed for 2,000 years as prophesied, a HUGH miracle."
{Question: How many times since the days of Abraham has Israel been dispersed and Returned to Israel ?? }


"The time of Jacob's Trouble has never taken place."
{I would think if you asked any of the 6 million Jews who were killed and even many of the survivors of the Holocaust if the Time of Jacob's trouble has come they might disagree with you. And even today the true Children of Jacob are fround upon worldwide}

"The tribulation has never taken place."
{Go to any good Bible concordance and key word search the word Tribulation and then tell me the Saints of GOD have no had tribulation}


"The promises to the patriarchs have not been consummated."
{ Many of the Promises to the patriarchs have taken place (some Spiritually, Many Promises left to be consumated in the age to come}


"The six conditions of Daniel's prophecy have yet to be fulfilled."
{ As I have said to deny this is "I" think to deny the Finished Work of The Cross}

Put the pieces together Ray.
{I Have Brother}

Sometimes I think you might have a hidden agenda.
{ My ONLY agenda Brother is to Spread what I have come to know is the TRUTH}

[Justaned]

Ray, many times one has to take several scriptures in the Bible and put them together in such a way that they all harmonize and none are done violence.

None are done violence

Judged by who? The person that puts them together? What about context?


Do you seriously believe that??????
Let us take
John 12:17 (NASB) and Genesis 34:31 together changing nothing and doing no violence to either.

17 So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. But they said, "Should he treat our sister as a harlot?"

Changes the whole story and violates each verse unless you want to prove Lazarus mistreated his sister after he was resurrected from the tomb by Jesus.

This is how craziness gets started in the church. Some slick preacher takes two verses that sound good puts them together so they even sound better and people that wanted their ears tickled are estatic. As they walk out of the church you can even hear them gush, "he taught us something tonite that we never knew."

Of course he did, he took scripture and knitted it together to say what he wanted it to say. Something God never said.

[Ray]

Ray, many times one has to take several scriptures in the Bible and put them together in such a way that they all harmonize and none are done violence.

None are done violence

Judged by who? The person that puts them together? What about context?


Do you seriously believe that??????
Let us take
John 12:17 (NASB) and Genesis 34:31 together changing nothing and doing no violence to either.

17 So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. But they said, "Should he treat our sister as a harlot?"

Changes the whole story and violates each verse unless you want to prove Lazarus mistreated his sister after he was resurrected from the tomb by Jesus.

This is how craziness gets started in the church. Some slick preacher takes two verses that sound good puts them together so they even sound better and people that wanted their ears tickled are estatic. As they walk out of the church you can even hear them gush, "he taught us something tonite that we never knew."

Of course he did, he took scripture and knitted it together to say what he wanted it to say. Something God never said.

Hello Brother Ed,
Ed I believe Scripture proves Scripture, But certianly the verses must be in context with one another, It is through man's commentary where violence is done, the twisting,bending,changing verses to present something that is not presented in the clear meaning of the verse is where False doctrine is birthed.

[Justaned]

Ray, many times one has to take several scriptures in the Bible and put them together in such a way that they all harmonize and none are done violence.

None are done violence

Judged by who? The person that puts them together? What about context?


Do you seriously believe that??????
Let us take
John 12:17 (NASB) and Genesis 34:31 together changing nothing and doing no violence to either.

17 So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. But they said, "Should he treat our sister as a harlot?"

Changes the whole story and violates each verse unless you want to prove Lazarus mistreated his sister after he was resurrected from the tomb by Jesus.

This is how craziness gets started in the church. Some slick preacher takes two verses that sound good puts them together so they even sound better and people that wanted their ears tickled are estatic. As they walk out of the church you can even hear them gush, "he taught us something tonite that we never knew."

Of course he did, he took scripture and knitted it together to say what he wanted it to say. Something God never said.

Hello Brother Ed,
Ed I believe Scripture proves Scripture, But certianly the verses must be in context with one another, It is through man's commentary where violence is done, the twisting,bending,changing verses to present something that is not presented in the clear meaning of the verse is where False doctrine is birthed.

AMEN!!!