Dake Bible Discussion Boardantichrist of the 70 weeks

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titus213
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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by titus213 »

Hello Ray,

You asked: How do you feel about "linking the Papal system with the Antichrist" ???
Pretty much the same way as Spurgeon felt about believers linking Napoleon with the Antichrist in his day, or believers linking JFK or Kissinger with the Antichrist when I was younger. As I understand 2 Thessalonians 2 the Antichrist won't be revealed until after certain other events take place, so there's really no point in trying to guess.

When I was in grad school one of my major areas of study was Reformation history; Luther was convinced he was living in the last days and therefore looked around for the Antichrist. Of course, he had no problem finding him in the Pope because in Luther's eyes he was by far the greatest enemy of the Gospel. (To be fair, not even those friendly to Catholicism could describe the Renaissance popes as friends of the Gospel). Actually, many of Luther's followers thought of him as the promised "Elijah who should come". There were also those on the other side who had noticed that Luther's name could be analyzed numerically with the result that it equalled '666'. They were happy to return the favor and proclaim that Luther was the real Antichrist.



Ray

Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by Ray »

fatherfisher wrote:Hello Ray,

You asked: How do you feel about "linking the Papal system with the Antichrist" ???
Pretty much the same way as Spurgeon felt about believers linking Napoleon with the Antichrist in his day, or believers linking JFK or Kissinger with the Antichrist when I was younger. As I understand 2 Thessalonians 2 the Antichrist won't be revealed until after certain other events take place, so there's really no point in trying to guess.

When I was in grad school one of my major areas of study was Reformation history; Luther was convinced he was living in the last days and therefore looked around for the Antichrist. Of course, he had no problem finding him in the Pope because in Luther's eyes he was by far the greatest enemy of the Gospel. (To be fair, not even those friendly to Catholicism could describe the Renaissance popes as friends of the Gospel). Actually, many of Luther's followers thought of him as the promised "Elijah who should come". There were also those on the other side who had noticed that Luther's name could be analyzed numerically with the result that it equalled '666'. They were happy to return the favor and proclaim that Luther was the real Antichrist.

fatherfisher,

2 Thess 2, presents the fact that our being gathered Unto The LORD (the Rapture) will not occur "except there come a falling away (apostisia) first, and that man of sin be reveiled".

Do you not believe that this falling away from the TRUTH has not yet occured ????


2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version (KJV)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



titus213
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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by titus213 »

Hi Ray,

Do you not believe that this falling away from the TRUTH has not yet occured ????

There certainly has been a falling away from the truth, but apparently not THE falling away Paul is referring to, since the man of sin has not been revealed (unless you know something I don't). In addition, he cannot be revealed until something else happens as well: the Restrainer must be taken out of the way.



Ray

Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by Ray »

fatherfisher wrote:Hi Ray,

Do you not believe that this falling away from the TRUTH has not yet occured ????

There certainly has been a falling away from the truth, but apparently not THE falling away Paul is referring to, since the man of sin has not been revealed (unless you know something I don't). In addition, he cannot be revealed until something else happens as well: the Restrainer must be taken out of the way.
Yes



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branham1965
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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by branham1965 »

BROTHER RAY
thanks for your testimony.i recall seeing it before.there was a time i could have quoted it verbatim.now im sharp as a ...butterknife.ive lost all my mojo. +see
if you want a REAL shock :shocked!: :shocked!: go to dawn bible students look up studies in the scriptures.check out volume two the study 9 i think on the man of sin :shocked!:
its quite ....interesting.you will like this one.
then if you have time check out volume 3 study on the restoration of Israel.i dont think you will like this.
Pastor Russell was a congregationalist who was caught up in the great Bible study fervor of the 1800's here.
sadly he grabbed onto some bad things......... :agrue: :agrue:
but he was not all off center. he spoke to the hippodrome full of JEWS :shocked!: telling them to return to Israel...and never tried to convert them.IN FACT he worked with Theodore Hertzl...and is regarded as the first Christian Zionist in ISRAEL in 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked!:

p.s. WHEN I HEARD WHAT WILLIAM BARCLAY TAUGHT ON THE MIRACLE OF THE LOAVES AND FISHES I +bugeyed +CrazyEyes
HERE IS A SO CALLED SCHOLAR WHO IS A DENIER OF THE WORD!!!
Ray wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Hello Ray,

You asked: How do you feel about "linking the Papal system with the Antichrist" ???
Pretty much the same way as Spurgeon felt about believers linking Napoleon with the Antichrist in his day, or believers linking JFK or Kissinger with the Antichrist when I was younger. As I understand 2 Thessalonians 2 the Antichrist won't be revealed until after certain other events take place, so there's really no point in trying to guess.

When I was in grad school one of my major areas of study was Reformation history; Luther was convinced he was living in the last days and therefore looked around for the Antichrist. Of course, he had no problem finding him in the Pope because in Luther's eyes he was by far the greatest enemy of the Gospel. (To be fair, not even those friendly to Catholicism could describe the Renaissance popes as friends of the Gospel). Actually, many of Luther's followers thought of him as the promised "Elijah who should come". There were also those on the other side who had noticed that Luther's name could be analyzed numerically with the result that it equalled '666'. They were happy to return the favor and proclaim that Luther was the real Antichrist.

fatherfisher,

2 Thess 2, presents the fact that our being gathered Unto The LORD (the Rapture) will not occur "except there come a falling away (apostisia) first, and that man of sin be reveiled".

Do you not believe that this falling away from the TRUTH has not yet occured ????


2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version (KJV)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



Ray

Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by Ray »

Ray wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Hi Ray,

Do you not believe that this falling away from the TRUTH has not yet occured ????

There certainly has been a falling away from the truth, but apparently not THE falling away Paul is referring to, since the man of sin has not been revealed (unless you know something I don't). In addition, he cannot be revealed until something else happens as well: the Restrainer must be taken out of the way.
Yes
fatherfisher,
Whats your thoughts on "the Restrainer who must be taken out of the way"???
.



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branham1965
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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by branham1965 »

why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???



Ray

Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by Ray »

branham1965 wrote:why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???
Hello Brother Billy,
Neither do I claim to be a scholar, But I am as you are a Student of The WORD.

FIRST and FARMOST, Do The Scriptures ( Daniel 9:24-27 ) even so much as hint to there being a "Gap" between the 69th and the 70th week ?

In theses 70 weeks are 3 blocks of time mentioned 7 weeks, 62,weeks ,1 week Yet NOWHERE is there a mention of a "Gap" of time to occur inbetween these 3 blocks of time as this Prophecy was given to be accompished inside of these 70 weeks (490 years) .

Daniel 9:24 mentions 6 accomplishments that were to be done for (or in) Daniel's People (Israel), to occur Inside of these 70 weeks (490 years)
Now to look at these 6 accompishments and NOT contribute them as being ONLY accompished through JESUS' Finished Work on The Cross, to me would be completely ludicrous, And be robbing Our LORD of what HE did in Fact accomplish in HIS First Advent.

And what is Clearly given in Verses 25 and 26 is that 69 of the 70 weeks were to be completed BEFORE JESUS is Anointed as MESSIAH,
CLEARLY leaving JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death to occur AFTER the completion of the 69th week, which is Clearly the 70th week.

Again to name 6 accompishments of The Cross Of CHRIST to be Done inside of these 70 weeks, Then to Leave JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial to occur outside of the 70 weeks and install It inside of an invented "Gap" (to remind you) is not even given in this prophecy, is totally and completely proposterous.

Daniel 9:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by bibleman »

branham1965 wrote:why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???
Hi Billy,

I think the answer is that those who do not understand the 70 weeks of Daniel just have not studied the Scriptures on the subject or else they just have their mind made up before they approach the Bible.

The key is that the 6 events of Daniel 9 must be fulfilled before the 70 weeks are over, and since they have not been fulfilled, then of course when Messiah was cut off at the end of the 69th week, there must be one more week (7 years) to complete the prophecy.

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.
5. Six things to be done in the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan. 9:24):

(1) "To finish (put an end to) the transgression." The Hebrew word pesha` (HSN-<H6588>) means revolt; rebel; sin against lawful authority. It is often translated "transgression" (Ps. 51:1; Isa. 43:25; etc.). This transgression has reference to the sins of Israel at Jerusalem, the culmination of their sins when they will be saved from all sin at the return of their Messiah who will turn ungodliness from Jacob and convert the nation in a day (Rom. 11:25-29; Isa. 66:7-10; Ezek. 36:24-30).

(2) "To make an end of sins" concerning Israel and Jerusalem. This has never been done, but will be accomplished at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zech. 14). The Spirit of repentance will be poured out upon Israel just before the second coming, and a fountain for sin and uncleanness will be opened to the whole nation at that time (Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Rom. 11:25-29).

(3) "To make reconciliation (atonement; Hebrew: kaphar (HSN-<H3722>), to cover; make atonement) for iniquity." This was done for Israel and all others on the cross (Isa. 53; Col. 1:20; 2:14-17; 1Pet. 2:24), but Israel as a nation has not yet experienced this covering for sin. They will be fully reconciled to God at the second coming of Christ (Isa. 1:18-20; 66:7-8; Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Mt. 23:37-39; Rom. 11:25-29).

(4) "To bring in everlasting righteousness." When transgression comes to an end, when an end of sins is made, and when full atonement for all sin is experienced by Israel, then everlasting righteousness concerning Israel and Jerusalem will be ushered in (Isa. 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14,18,27; Ezek. 43:7; Zech. 14; Lk. 1:32-33; Rom. 11:25-29; Rev. 11:15; Rev. 19:11 -- Rev. 20:10; Rev. 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5).

(5) "To seal up the vision and prophecy." The prophecies concerning Israel and Jerusalem and their eternal restoration under their Messiah will be fulfilled. The word for "prophecy" here should have been translated "prophet." It could also mean that there will be no more need for inspired men to rebuke Israel at Jerusalem in the attempt to lead them to God and righteousness when the Messiah comes, "for all shall know the Lord from the least unto the greatest of them" (Isa. 11:9; 66:7-10; Jer. 31:31-40; Rom. 11:25-29).

(6) "To anoint the most holy." This refers to the cleansing of the holy of holies, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem from the abomination of desolation, the sacrilege of Gentiles; and to the anointing of the Millennial temple of Ezek. 40-43; Zech. 6:12-13. "The most holy" is never used of a person, nor would the Jews ever associate this term with their Messiah who is always distinguished by the simple title, Messiah. Therefore, to teach that this refers to man crowning Christ is out of harmony with Scripture. Man is not to anoint and crown Christ. This has already been done by God the Father (Lk. 22:29; Acts 1:7; 2:36; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 11:15; 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14). Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 9".


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Re: antichrist of the 70 weeks

Post by scottae316 »

bibleman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:why do some say there is a gap after 69th week....and others do not.obviously im no scholar.can someone explain this???
Hi Billy,

I think the answer is that those who do not understand the 70 weeks of Daniel just have not studied the Scriptures on the subject or else they just have their mind made up before they approach the Bible.

The key is that the 6 events of Daniel 9 must be fulfilled before the 70 weeks are over, and since they have not been fulfilled, then of course when Messiah was cut off at the end of the 69th week, there must be one more week (7 years) to complete the prophecy.

Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.
5. Six things to be done in the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan. 9:24):

(1) "To finish (put an end to) the transgression." The Hebrew word pesha` (HSN-<H6588>) means revolt; rebel; sin against lawful authority. It is often translated "transgression" (Ps. 51:1; Isa. 43:25; etc.). This transgression has reference to the sins of Israel at Jerusalem, the culmination of their sins when they will be saved from all sin at the return of their Messiah who will turn ungodliness from Jacob and convert the nation in a day (Rom. 11:25-29; Isa. 66:7-10; Ezek. 36:24-30).

(2) "To make an end of sins" concerning Israel and Jerusalem. This has never been done, but will be accomplished at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zech. 14). The Spirit of repentance will be poured out upon Israel just before the second coming, and a fountain for sin and uncleanness will be opened to the whole nation at that time (Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Rom. 11:25-29).

(3) "To make reconciliation (atonement; Hebrew: kaphar (HSN-<H3722>), to cover; make atonement) for iniquity." This was done for Israel and all others on the cross (Isa. 53; Col. 1:20; 2:14-17; 1Pet. 2:24), but Israel as a nation has not yet experienced this covering for sin. They will be fully reconciled to God at the second coming of Christ (Isa. 1:18-20; 66:7-8; Zech. 12:10 -- Zech. 13:1; Mt. 23:37-39; Rom. 11:25-29).

(4) "To bring in everlasting righteousness." When transgression comes to an end, when an end of sins is made, and when full atonement for all sin is experienced by Israel, then everlasting righteousness concerning Israel and Jerusalem will be ushered in (Isa. 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14,18,27; Ezek. 43:7; Zech. 14; Lk. 1:32-33; Rom. 11:25-29; Rev. 11:15; Rev. 19:11 -- Rev. 20:10; Rev. 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5).

(5) "To seal up the vision and prophecy." The prophecies concerning Israel and Jerusalem and their eternal restoration under their Messiah will be fulfilled. The word for "prophecy" here should have been translated "prophet." It could also mean that there will be no more need for inspired men to rebuke Israel at Jerusalem in the attempt to lead them to God and righteousness when the Messiah comes, "for all shall know the Lord from the least unto the greatest of them" (Isa. 11:9; 66:7-10; Jer. 31:31-40; Rom. 11:25-29).

(6) "To anoint the most holy." This refers to the cleansing of the holy of holies, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem from the abomination of desolation, the sacrilege of Gentiles; and to the anointing of the Millennial temple of Ezek. 40-43; Zech. 6:12-13. "The most holy" is never used of a person, nor would the Jews ever associate this term with their Messiah who is always distinguished by the simple title, Messiah. Therefore, to teach that this refers to man crowning Christ is out of harmony with Scripture. Man is not to anoint and crown Christ. This has already been done by God the Father (Lk. 22:29; Acts 1:7; 2:36; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 11:15; 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14). Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 9".
Hi Bibleman,

You said to Billy
[b]bibleman[/b] wrote:Daniel makes this pretty plain as can be seen below.
But then you quote from the notes of the Dake Bible. Are you saying that Daniel spoke through Dake, or that Dake's notes are the same as Scripture? You have done this in the past and I would like to know your thinking.



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