Dake Bible Discussion BoardGod's Sovereignty

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victoryword
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by victoryword »

Justaned wrote:Your absolutely right Jesus did give us examples of people the experienced destruction because they did not Trust God but looked to other things to rely on.
But unlike you and Jerry Bridges, a firm Calvinist - I have his book that you quote from here at home and have read through parts of it - Jesus never said not one single solitary thing about trusting in some abstract idea of sovereignty. Jesus said that the destruction people experienced was due to a lack of fidelity to the Word of God. Observe:
  • Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (Matt. 7:24-25)

    And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. (Mark 4:16-17)
The Word of God is the basis for trust (Eph. 1:13) and not the Calvinistic idea of what it means for God to be sovereign.



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Justaned
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by Justaned »

victoryword wrote:
Justaned wrote:Your absolutely right Jesus did give us examples of people the experienced destruction because they did not Trust God but looked to other things to rely on.
But unlike you and Jerry Bridges, a firm Calvinist - I have his book that you quote from here at home and have read through parts of it - Jesus never said not one single solitary thing about trusting in some abstract idea of sovereignty. Jesus said that the destruction people experienced was due to a lack of fidelity to the Word of God. Observe:
  • Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (Matt. 7:24-25)

    And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. (Mark 4:16-17)
The Word of God is the basis for trust (Eph. 1:13) and not the Calvinistic idea of what it means for God to be sovereign.
First I never read Jerry Bridges, I saw his quote and I liked it, I didn't read anything into it. To me verse 29 which to me says what we should trust in God to do. The only way around this is to remove verse 29 from your Bible. The idea that God isn't sovereign is contrary to all of scripture. Again to deny that would require the removal of many verses from the Bible.
I dislike Calvinism with a passion but if you want to persist insisting that I'm following a Calvinistic bent show me where instead of standing back making charges.
Again I never mentioned predistination or preordained those are terms you brought up in you bogus charge against me.



victoryword
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Re: God's Sovereignty

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Justaned wrote:"Confidence in the sovereignty of God in all that affects us is crucial to our trusting Him. If there is a single event in all of the universe that can occur outside of God's sovereign control, then we cannot trust Him. His love may be infinite, but if His power is limited and His purpose can be thwarted, we cannot trust Him. You may entrust to me your most valuable possessions. I may love you and my aim to honor your trust may be sincere, but if I do not have the power or ability to guard your valuables, you cannot truly entrust them to me." --Jerry Bridges, from "Trusting God: Even when Life Hurts"
Justaned, since you stated that you have not read the book and found this quote on the internet, let me admonish you to be cautious before accepting these quotes from his book. I don't know how you feel about the great Bible teacher, Andrew Murray, but in the context of this quote Bridges has just finished criticizing a statement by him in which Murray says that God works through our prayers and that our praying and unbelief limits him. Here is a full quote from his book:
  • Our response to these assertions is more than mere theological discussion. Confidence in the sovereignty of God in all that affects us is crucial to our trusting Him. If there is a single event in all of the universe that can occur outside of God's sovereign control then we cannot trust Him. His love may be infinite, but if His power is limited and His purposes can be thwarted, we cannot trust Him. However, the Scripture explicitly teaches that God rules as surely on earth as He does in Heaven. He permits, for reasons known only to Himself, people to act contrary to and in defiance of His revealed will, but He never permits them to act contrary to His Sovereign will.
First, Bridges forgets about Mark 6:5-6 where God's power was limited by the unbelief of the people (not that God's power itself is limited but He, by virtual of His respect for free will, cannot manifest His power in an atmosphere of unbelief).

Second, he misquotes the prayer of Jesus, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven". He reads it with a Calvinistic bent. But the prayer, when seen in the light of Matt. 18:18-20, is petitioning God for His will to be done on earth. That means that His will is NOT being done on earth until someone prays and asks Him to do it.

The last statement, which I bolded, ("He permits, for reasons known only to Himself, people to act contrary to and in defiance of His revealed will, but He never permits them to act contrary to His Sovereign will.") is so twisted that it takes a mystical Calvinist bent to embrace it as true. The BIble clearly states that there are numerous things that happens in our world that goes directly against God's sovereign will (Jer. 7:31; 19:5; 32:35; Luke 7:30, etc.). Furthermore, it is twisted for Bridges to make a distinction between God's revealed will and His sovereign will. This is the asinine "two wills of God" teaching that Calvinists like to proclaim. The Bible never makes such a distinction. This is only found in the Calvinist philosophical system.

Bridges' book is ridiculous, twisted and totally unscriptural. I do not question his sincerity, but his teaching makes a mockery of God's beautiful and wonderful character of love. It is this kind of teaching that I have declared war on because it is satanic slander against a wonderful loving God.



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Justaned
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by Justaned »

victoryword wrote:
Justaned wrote:"Confidence in the sovereignty of God in all that affects us is crucial to our trusting Him. If there is a single event in all of the universe that can occur outside of God's sovereign control, then we cannot trust Him. His love may be infinite, but if His power is limited and His purpose can be thwarted, we cannot trust Him. You may entrust to me your most valuable possessions. I may love you and my aim to honor your trust may be sincere, but if I do not have the power or ability to guard your valuables, you cannot truly entrust them to me." --Jerry Bridges, from "Trusting God: Even when Life Hurts"
Justaned, since you stated that you have not read the book and found this quote on the internet, let me admonish you to be cautious before accepting these quotes from his book. I don't know how you feel about the great Bible teacher, Andrew Murray, but in the context of this quote Bridges has just finished criticizing a statement by him in which Murray says that God works through our prayers and that our praying and unbelief limits him. Here is a full quote from his book:
  • Our response to these assertions is more than mere theological discussion. Confidence in the sovereignty of God in all that affects us is crucial to our trusting Him. If there is a single event in all of the universe that can occur outside of God's sovereign control then we cannot trust Him. His love may be infinite, but if His power is limited and His purposes can be thwarted, we cannot trust Him. However, the Scripture explicitly teaches that God rules as surely on earth as He does in Heaven. He permits, for reasons known only to Himself, people to act contrary to and in defiance of His revealed will, but He never permits them to act contrary to His Sovereign will.
First, Bridges forgets about Mark 6:5-6 where God's power was limited by the unbelief of the people (not that God's power itself is limited but He, by virtual of His respect for free will, cannot manifest His power in an atmosphere of unbelief).
Mark 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
What does this passage say, that God was unable to heal because of their unbelief? NO Jesus Healed. It says he could do no mighty work. What is Jesus' work? Physical healing???? NO! A thousand times no! It is spiritual healing trhough salvation, and because of their refusal to accept Jesus as Messiah even though he healed people of physical problems. Read the story see what Jesus was able and not able to do. To save them with unbelief would violate their free will something God never does.


victoryword wrote:Second, he misquotes the prayer of Jesus, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven". He reads it with a Calvinistic bent. But the prayer, when seen in the light of Matt. 18:18-20, is petitioning God for His will to be done on earth. That means that His will is NOT being done on earth until someone prays and asks Him to do it
Context context context!
But in light of the context of what Jesus had just said, in the light of common rabbinical expressions of that day, and in light of the grammatical construction of the text, it is clear that He was not teaching that God's power can be bent to men's will. He was not saying that men can force heaven to do things. Quite to the contrary, His promise was that when His people bend their wills to His, He will endorse and empower their act of obedience.
MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Matthew 16-23.
victoryword wrote:The last statement, which I bolded, ("He permits, for reasons known only to Himself, people to act contrary to and in defiance of His revealed will, but He never permits them to act contrary to His Sovereign will.") is so twisted that it takes a mystical Calvinist bent to embrace it as true. The BIble clearly states that there are numerous things that happens in our world that goes directly against God's sovereign will (Jer. 7:31; 19:5; 32:35; Luke 7:30, etc.). Furthermore, it is twisted for Bridges to make a distinction between God's revealed will and His sovereign will. This is the asinine "two wills of God" teaching that Calvinists like to proclaim. The Bible never makes such a distinction. This is only found in the Calvinist philosophical system.

Bridges' book is ridiculous, twisted and totally unscriptural. I do not question his sincerity, but his teaching makes a mockery of God's beautiful and wonderful character of love. It is this kind of teaching that I have declared war on because it is satanic slander against a wonderful loving God.
Why is it so mystical to you. God won't violate man's free will if make rejects salvation God will not force man to accept it. Man has rejected God will at the tree in the garden and man rejects God's will when he aborts a baby but that does not mean God has lost control only that God is allowing man his free will.

Again no aborted baby surprised God he saw it happen before the foundations of this world was laid and God had planned for it ever since.

YOur problem like many that want to cut and paste scripture to make God their servant is you forget God is capable of things you can't begin to imagine. Scripture tells us NOTHING is impossible with God, yet man keeps trying to construct boxes around God limiting Him to their imagination and God is far beyond that.

If you God isn't sovereign than why serve him? Why pray, if God can't change as situation you are praying about then why pray? If you don't think God is control or God is limited then why pray?

I believe God saw the aborted baby before the foundations of the world and saw every prayer you or I have ever offered and God through His unimaginable power, might and wisdom has incorporate both the abortion and our prayers into his final plan. What is even more exciting God has already heard the next prayer you or I will make and has already moved on it.



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branham1965
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by branham1965 »

Reverend Reuben Egolf who posts here has a powerful book on this hot subject.He is an Anointed Preacher and Dake Bible scholar.

CAN I TRUST GOD??UNDERSTANDING GOD'S SOVEREIGNITY

Amazon has it and his other wonderful book THE VOICE WITHIN UNDERSTANDING CONSCIENCE

There isnt a better Preacher or man of God alive than Reuben.I mean anywhere.When the VOH was going on he'd be on the platform. :arrow: :arrow: If i was dying i'd want him and First Lady and the great saints at Mount Calvary to pray. :arrow:



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Re: God's Sovereignty

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[video][/video]


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branham1965
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by branham1965 »

i meant to say there is no like :vamp: love with him.like :vamp: love is my term from Jimmy * which means one day they love you the next they ...you get it.
not with Reuben.no mind games.no half stepping. no manipulation.no witchcraft did you know mind games manipulation is a form of witchcraft!!!????
he is rock solid consistent everytime. :angel: :angel:
if im the worst.....he by far he is the very very best poster to ever post on here. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: WAR REUBEN!!!!!!!!
branham1965 wrote:Reverend Reuben Egolf who posts here has a powerful book on this hot subject.He is an Anointed Preacher and Dake Bible scholar.

CAN I TRUST GOD??UNDERSTANDING GOD'S SOVEREIGNITY

Amazon has it and his other wonderful book THE VOICE WITHIN UNDERSTANDING CONSCIENCE

There isnt a better Preacher or man of God alive than Reuben.I mean anywhere.When the VOH was going on he'd be on the platform. :arrow: :arrow: If i was dying i'd want him and First Lady and the great saints at Mount Calvary to pray. :arrow:



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macca
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by macca »

Bible Basics wrote:[video][/video]



Thanks for posting this Mr Basics :angel: i have watched a few of Reuben's videos and enjoyed them immensely +highfive

You are correct Billy, top preacher :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

macca



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Re: God's Sovereignty

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You're welcome, Macca.

I googled Rev. Egolf's book that Mr. Branham mentioned, above, after reading his post and this video came up in the search. Other videos did, too.
:turn-l:


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branham1965
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Re: God's Sovereignty

Post by branham1965 »

Bible Basics wrote:You're welcome, Macca.

I googled Rev. Egolf's book that Mr. Branham mentioned, above, after reading his post and this video came up in the search. Other videos did, too.
:turn-l:
Mr.Branham?? :shocked!: :shocked!: Thats the nicest kindest thing anyone has ever called me.Thank you. :Fade-color



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