Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Did GOD come in Human Form?

[the_truth]

Actually, ὁ θεός would not be translated "THE GOD. "ὁ" would not be translated as it is a definite article and based on translation rules and context is not. So "ὁ θεός would be translated as God, not "THE GOD".

My friend, you do error. You do know there is a difference between adefinite article and indefinite. The Holy Spirit through the hands of the Apostles told them to write "Ho theos", so that it is clear to whom is being talked about. In your KJV and all english Bible, you don't know when "theos" is considered definite, even though i can, but as you can see there is ambiguity.

Let me say this: No man can break the Scripture that includes me. If you look at "ho theos" in its use in the NT,IN EACH AND EVERY CASE it used to refer to ONLY ONE Person, and that Person is THE FATHER of all, THE ONE GOD, THE Elohim(Theos) of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob. In NO case is that term ever referred to JESUS the CHRIST.

If you think you can prove from the Bible that "Ho THEOS" refers to JESUS, then be my guest. I await the impossible.

[the_truth]

The God or God what is the difference?Is Jesus God or not?Whether you are Trinitarian or Oneness you MUST BELIEVE JESUS IS LORD!!!!!!!

Heb.1:8-10 But unto the Son he saith,Thy throne O God,is forever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy Kingdom.Thou hast loved rightness, and hated iniguity;therfore God,even thy God,hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.And,Thou,Lord,in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;and the heavens are the works of thy hands:

Phil. 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you,which was also in Christ Jesus:Who,being in the form of God ,thought it not robery to be equel with God:But made himself of no reputation,and took upon him the form of a servent,and was made in the likeness of men:And being found in fashion as a man,he humbled himself,and became obedient unto death,even the death of the cross.Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name:That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,of things in heaven, and things under the earth;And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,to the glory of God the Father.

Rev.1:8 I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending,saith the LORD.which is ,and which was, and which is to come,the ALMIGHTY.

Brodave,
But there is a difference. The Scripture attest to that. You are quite correct that ONE must BELIEVE JESUS is LORD. No where in the Scripture does it say that ONE must be JESUS is THE ONE GOD or that JESUS is GOD.

What was the mind of JESUS? HE took on the mind of a servant and son, YET trinitarian and oneness doctrine want to declare that JESUS is THE GOD. YET know one Apostle preached that.

The first thing preached concerning Jesus was this FACT: that HE was anointed by HO THEOS(GOD),proper noun referring to THE FATHER, the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, AND was MADE/appointed LORD and CHRIST.

I'm going to post later on your verse that you use. They DO DECLARE that THE SON, JESUS is LORD, but NOT THE GOD.

[brodave]

Elohim in hebrew is plural three or more.In Hebrew there is singular one;duo two; plural three or more.
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.The Father ,The Son,The Holy Spirit.
I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these there are one.

[the_truth]

Hi truth,

Here it is and no amount of spin can change it!

The WORD says: Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Who was with us? - - - - - ὁ θεός that is - ho theos. THE GOD. The child, the Son, was "GOD WITH US"

Hi Bibleman,
Do i detect that you are expert at tap dancing.

I do believe in Matthew 1:23 that where JESUS was, truly THE FATHER was with HIM. Which means that THE GOD("Ho Theos") was WITH HIM. I gave you Jesus' own words. Now i'm going to give the Apostle Peter's word.

No man can break Matthew 1:23. You, me or anybody. This is what i mean when I say let Scripture interpret itself. Goto Acts 10:38.How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for (ho) God(theos) was with him. The Apostle seals it. He said JESUS of Nazareth was "anointed" with the Holy Spirit and with Power and went about healing all. NOW THIS PROVES what I have said but some can't accept: The Apostle said for "GOD was with HIM". Now the KJV and all Bibles don't translate the article which is why people get confused. Biblebman, you can confirm that there is a article in front of "theos". It literally reads "for THE GOD(ho theos) was with HIM(Jesus). Now the Apostle had a chance to say JESUS did these things because HE was "GOD(theos)", but he didn't. He could have said he did these because HE was "ho theos", but HE didn't. The Apostle said because JESUS was baptized with the Spirit and performed the work, truly THE GOD was WITH HIM which fulfills what Isaiah the Prophet said concerning HIM(JESUS).

"Ho Theos" in EVERY CASE refers to only 1 PERSON and that PERSON is THE FATHER. "ho theos" and JESUS are 2 distinct Person and are NOT the same. One is THE FATHER and other is THE SON

Bibleman, are you becoming Oneness because you said that JESUS is "ho theos". I think you're pulling my leg.

[the_truth]

Elohim in hebrew is plural three or more.In Hebrew there is singular one;duo two; plural three or more.
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.The Father ,The Son,The Holy Spirit.
I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these there are one.

Yes, "Elohim" is a plural word, but it has nothing to do whatsoever with indicating "the godhead as being 3". Or indicating that something is more than one. Any study in the Hebrew language will bear this fact out.


So how many of you are there? You have a spirit and you have your word. Yet, there are not 3 of you. Common sense.

[the_truth]

DO YOU SEE THE FRUIT OF THIS FALSE TEACHING???!!!!
WHOM DO MEN SAY THAT I AM???? That question is the most important question any human being will ever be asked. as Reverend Angley says.
And i just love love the Greek ,Hebrew stuff .I have not seen the so called silly HO THEOS argument since brawling with Jehovah's Witnesses.

.

Time for you to step up to plate, Billy. Because you can't understand Greek nor Hebrew, don't fault me. Let's brawl, but in "love".

Answer me this: Is there a difference in the English language between an indefinite and definite article? Is there difference between these statements: "A BOOK and THE BOOK". One could be any book, the other points to a specific book.

The Holy Spirit referred to THE FATHER as "Ho Theos"(THE FATHER), and NOT JESUS (THE SON) in every case where the greek term "Ho Theos" is used in the NT. So why should we change that because of the tradition of men. What gives you the right or anybody the right to use a title that is not ascribed to HIM.

The Scripture confirm that the THE FATHER and THE SON are 2 distinct persons and if you believe THE GOD of Abraham came down from heaven as a Human baby, then YOU have believed as the Pagans because the Pagans believe and taught that their GODS came down TO EARTH as men.

You asked the question and the Answer is what the Apostle Peter. HE is THE SON of THE LIVING GOD(Ho THEOS) who was made LORD and SAVIOR. HE was not made THE GOD and THE FATHER, another JESUS that is taught by "Orthodox Christianity". I think JW believe HE was "a god". Not ME! I believe as the Apostle and Prophets and Jesus taught: I believe in ONLY ONE GOD, Father of all and HIS SON whom was born of a woman, the seed of David, who was made LORD and SAVIOR, and who is the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON[GOD-Ho Theos] That's straight from the Bible and that is the Monotheistic Doctrine that the TRUE Apostles believed before distortion came in via Orthodox Christianity(Trinitarisim and Oneness, JW). And look how everybody find fault with that statement. That is

[Ironman]

"Deut 4:35 says "It has been clearly demonstrated to you that the GOD(LORD) alone is ha Elohim(THE GOD); there is none beside Him."

.

I'd like to know who's sitting at the Fathers Right hand in Heaven then if it isnt Christ, who was the Word of (John 1:1 ; 1:14)

"Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (1 Peter 3:22), "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:2), "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;" (Hebrews 10:12), "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;" (Hebrews 8:1),

Who is this, surely its not the Father????

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:(Hebrews 1:3).

Collossians 3:1; Ephesians 1:20; Romans 8:34;

Who was this person standing on the Fathers right hand???

"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (Acts 7:55-56).

Jesus is a separate person to the Father, who is another person alltogether seperate from Jesus Cheirst who was the Word of (John 1:1; 1:14).

"But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62).

[macca]

Elohim in hebrew is plural three or more.In Hebrew there is singular one;duo two; plural three or more.
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.The Father ,The Son,The Holy Spirit.
I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these there are one.

Yes, "Elohim" is a plural word, but it has nothing to do whatsoever with indicating "the godhead as being 3". Or indicating that something is more than one. Any study in the Hebrew language will bear this fact out.


So how many of you are there? You have a spirit and you have your word. Yet, there are not 3 of you. Common sense.

So, if i maybe understand you here truthy old mate, God (the Father) can divide Himself into 3. vis, Himself, his word and his spirit?????
But, i cannot even though i am me, my word and i have a spirit???
Even though Rom 1:20; says i should be able to understand the Godhead by that which was made. Me

[scottae316]

Hi truth,

It seems we have a choice here.... to believe the WORD of GOD or to believe you.

Let's see the WORD says: Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Who was with us? - - - - - ὁ θεός that is - ho theos. THE GOD. The child, the Son, was "GOD WITH US" So let's see here the Bible says Jesus was GOD (ho theos) - you say that Matthew lied to us. Hum... think, think, think... Well sorry but you lose - I am going to believe the WORD of God over you!

On second thought I am not sorry at all! (smile)

Bibleman,
No bibeman, i don't lose. Matthew was a Hebrew Apostle. He said and Prophesied that JESUS was CALLED "IMMANUEL". Matthew did not say JESUS IS[ "Ho Theos", no matter how many ways you try to spin it.


And Jesus was prophesied to BE CALLED that because as I have said and Jesus and the Apostles confirmed: Ho Theos, THE FATHER was WITH HIM(Jesus), therefore THE FATHER was with the Apostles. JESUS talked so much about THE FATHER that the Apostles said shows us THE FATHER. What did JESUS say? Paraphrasing JESUS: I'm not THE FATHER, but HE is here. HE is here because we are ONE and because THE FATHER is WITH ME. John 8:29.

You have contradicted yourself because you told me i believe in another post that THE FATHER is not THE SON. The Scripture proves 100% that "Ho Theos" is ONLY THE FATHER. 1 Cor 8:6 But to us there there is but ONE [THEOS], THE FATHER. John 5:1,17,18 Out of JESUS own mouth ….also that "Ho Theos" was HIS(Jesus) Father. John 16:27 For THE FATHER himself loves you…and have believed that I (Jesus) came out from "Ho Theos". "Ho Theos"=THE FATHER="THE ONE GOD" in every instance and case of the Scripture. It cannot be disputed nor contradicted in any case.

Are you telling me that Jesus came out of himself? You said Jesus IS "Ho Theos". So are you now backtracking and saying that JESUS is THE FATHER. The same thing that ONENESS believe.

The challenge STILL stands: Not one Prophet, not one Apostle, not THE FATHER HIMSELF, neither JESUS HIMSELF ever said in any Scripture that was recorded that: JESUS(THE SON) is "Ho Theos". I believe the Adversary the devil tried to make himself "Ho THEOS" and "Ho Theos"(THE FATHER) found fault with him for that very thing; making himself "el".

Yes, I'm going to believe what is WRITTEN and what NO MAN can dispute through the Scripture: that JESUS is NOT "Ho Theos", but THE SON of "ho theos". John 10:36. Please understand the significance of being called THE SON. As Jesus told Peter, flesh and blood doesn't reveal this but THE FATHER, "Ho THEOS" in heaven.

The Scripture cannot be broken.

Hi truth,

Here it is and no amount of spin can change it!

The WORD says: Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Who was with us? - - - - - ὁ θεός that is - ho theos. THE GOD. The child, the Son, was "GOD WITH US"

Actually, ὁ θεός would not be translated "THE GOD. "ὁ" would not be translated as it is a definite article and based on translation rules and context is not. So "ὁ θεός would be translated as God, not "THE GOD".

So Scott,

Should we put you in the "I don't believe Jesus was (is) God - the very God - camp?

Hi Leon,

Where did I say that Jesus was not God? First of all you said you know Greek and Hebrew, so let's review. θεός is Greek for God, not Jesus or Christ. ὁ is a definite article which English does not use in the same way the many other languages do. It is not proper to say "the" before most nouns. Also the definite article in many foreign languages indicates gender, tense, mood, and voice something it does not normally do in English. An example of the would be saying Athe plane for theNew York city is boarding now. Makes no sense does it. Now sometimes the definite article is translated and needed, this is all decided by the context of the sentence.

So Leon, can you explain how you make the leap from me explaining the proper translation of ὁ θεός to asking if I don't believe that Jesus is God? I can see not logical reason or even a "rabbit trail" that could cause you to ask me such a question, so please explain.

[bibleman]

Hi truth,

It seems we have a choice here.... to believe the WORD of GOD or to believe you.

Let's see the WORD says: Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Who was with us? - - - - - ὁ θεός that is - ho theos. THE GOD. The child, the Son, was "GOD WITH US" So let's see here the Bible says Jesus was GOD (ho theos) - you say that Matthew lied to us. Hum... think, think, think... Well sorry but you lose - I am going to believe the WORD of God over you!

On second thought I am not sorry at all! (smile)

Bibleman,
No bibeman, i don't lose. Matthew was a Hebrew Apostle. He said and Prophesied that JESUS was CALLED "IMMANUEL". Matthew did not say JESUS IS[ "Ho Theos", no matter how many ways you try to spin it.


And Jesus was prophesied to BE CALLED that because as I have said and Jesus and the Apostles confirmed: Ho Theos, THE FATHER was WITH HIM(Jesus), therefore THE FATHER was with the Apostles. JESUS talked so much about THE FATHER that the Apostles said shows us THE FATHER. What did JESUS say? Paraphrasing JESUS: I'm not THE FATHER, but HE is here. HE is here because we are ONE and because THE FATHER is WITH ME. John 8:29.

You have contradicted yourself because you told me i believe in another post that THE FATHER is not THE SON. The Scripture proves 100% that "Ho Theos" is ONLY THE FATHER. 1 Cor 8:6 But to us there there is but ONE [THEOS], THE FATHER. John 5:1,17,18 Out of JESUS own mouth ….also that "Ho Theos" was HIS(Jesus) Father. John 16:27 For THE FATHER himself loves you…and have believed that I (Jesus) came out from "Ho Theos". "Ho Theos"=THE FATHER="THE ONE GOD" in every instance and case of the Scripture. It cannot be disputed nor contradicted in any case.

Are you telling me that Jesus came out of himself? You said Jesus IS "Ho Theos". So are you now backtracking and saying that JESUS is THE FATHER. The same thing that ONENESS believe.

The challenge STILL stands: Not one Prophet, not one Apostle, not THE FATHER HIMSELF, neither JESUS HIMSELF ever said in any Scripture that was recorded that: JESUS(THE SON) is "Ho Theos". I believe the Adversary the devil tried to make himself "Ho THEOS" and "Ho Theos"(THE FATHER) found fault with him for that very thing; making himself "el".

Yes, I'm going to believe what is WRITTEN and what NO MAN can dispute through the Scripture: that JESUS is NOT "Ho Theos", but THE SON of "ho theos". John 10:36. Please understand the significance of being called THE SON. As Jesus told Peter, flesh and blood doesn't reveal this but THE FATHER, "Ho THEOS" in heaven.

The Scripture cannot be broken.

Hi truth,

Here it is and no amount of spin can change it!

The WORD says: Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Who was with us? - - - - - ὁ θεός that is - ho theos. THE GOD. The child, the Son, was "GOD WITH US"

Actually, ὁ θεός would not be translated "THE GOD. "ὁ" would not be translated as it is a definite article and based on translation rules and context is not. So "ὁ θεός would be translated as God, not "THE GOD".

So Scott,

Should we put you in the "I don't believe Jesus was (is) God - the very God - camp?

Hi Leon,

Where did I say that Jesus was not God? First of all you said you know Greek and Hebrew, so let's review. θεός is Greek for God, not Jesus or Christ. ὁ is a definite article which English does not use in the same way the many other languages do. It is not proper to say "the" before most nouns. Also the definite article in many foreign languages indicates gender, tense, mood, and voice something it does not normally do in English. An example of the would be saying Athe plane for theNew York city is boarding now. Makes no sense does it. Now sometimes the definite article is translated and needed, this is all decided by the context of the sentence.

So Leon, can you explain how you make the leap from me explaining the proper translation of ὁ θεός to asking if I don't believe that Jesus is God? I can see not logical reason or even a "rabbit trail" that could cause you to ask me such a question, so please explain.

Hi Scott,

Just having some fun with you, since you always seem to try chasing me around the board, only to commenting to me when you are trying to take a jab at me.