Dake Bible Discussion BoardJESUS THE " I AM"

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branham1965
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by branham1965 »

no macca they just dont use this verse to make it say something that it aint saying.it states the Lord rained fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven.

ONE GOD .and no more sodom or gommorrah.
do you think Moses who wrote this by the Finger of God ...by the Holy Ghost ...that He actually believed in TWO JEHOVAHS OR TWO YAWEHS???
it contradicts the rest of the Torah.Duet 6:4...and any Jewish Rabbi would tell us so.
macca wrote:Septuagint: Gen. 19:24;
And the Lord rained rained on Sodom and Gomarrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.

The ready research bible Exegeses: Gen. 19:14;
Then the Lord (Yah Veh) rained upon Sodom (Sedom) and upon Gomorrah (Amorah) brimstone (sulphur) and fire
from the Lord (Yah Veh) out of heaven (the heavens)

Yah Veh = He (who) is

Let me take an educated guess here and say, that nearly all the commentators that speak of this verse believe that Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit is Jesus's spirit.
That there is but one God who shows himself in 3 different manifestations,
So there can not be 3 different persons in the Godhead as that would be 3 Gods.
Basically it is far too hard to understand for us mere humans, bla, bla, bla, bla
unbelief gone to seed.

macca



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macca
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by macca »

But it does not contradict the word of God, Billy....the only contradictions i can find are outside of the bible written by men who believe they know better than the Holy Spirit.

macca

Oh, and i do not have any commentries...



Ray

Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by Ray »

gregbaldwin wrote:I believe the NT says Jesus was the OT "I AM" but make no mistake He was not God The Father.

John 8:58-59 (KJV)
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I think Ray has presumed that the I AM of Exodus was the Father without any scripture to witness to that statement.

Exodus 3:
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.



Ray

Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by Ray »

macca wrote:Here is another one for them to chew on..
John. 14:23;
Jesus answered and said to him, if a man love me, he will keep my words: and MY Father will love him, and WE will come to him, and make OUR abode with him.

macca
Yea,
In the form of The HOLY SPIRIT macca.



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branham1965
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by branham1965 »

get real man.you use a commentary every day you pick up your Dake Bible with 35,000 notes in it.how did you get that in that verse to begin with.reading notes on a verse!!!!!

it is not saying there are TWO JEHOVAHS!!!!!THAT CONTRADICTS MOSES , THE SHEMA AND THE ENTIRE TORAH!!!!
"HEAR OH ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD." THE TETRAGRAMMATTON IS USED TWICE HERE.ARE THERE TWO GODS OR ONE!!!!!



macca wrote:But it does not contradict the word of God, Billy....the only contradictions i can find are outside of the bible written by men who believe they know better than the Holy Spirit.

macca

Oh, and i do not have any commentries...



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Ironman
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by Ironman »

I'm struggling with this. I posted this in the baptizing in the name thread in reply to one of billies posts.

My Post,
"I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word who cannot die, raise up the man, who can die, Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard for me to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? "
.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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macca
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by macca »

Ironman wrote:I'm struggling with this. I posted this in the baptizing in the name thread in reply to one of billies posts.

My Post,
"I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word who cannot die, raise up the man, who can die, Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard for me to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? "
.

Haz, i am no expert on theology... my belief is that all the confusion comes from the belief that there is only one person in the Godhead not 3.

As the 2nd adam, Jesus had to die body, soul and spirit as did the first adam.

We must remember that Jesus upholds ALL THINGS by the word of His power, so that everything He said before His death would come to pass as He stated it would.

Every prophesy that pertains to Jesus must come to pass on the strength of that one statement in Hebrews... if not, Jesus is not God.

macca



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branham1965
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by branham1965 »

hey Haz :rainbow1:
Jesus as a Man died.He gave His life a Ransom for us all and as an Offering for SIN.He was the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world and which taketh away the sin of the world.
He died for our sins and by His stripes we are healed.He was raised for our justification.
His blood was called God's Blood in Acts 20:28 by Doctor Luke.
Jesus was very God and very Man here on the earth.now in 1 John 5:7 the Word was spoken of there.
now this verse IS controversial.many say it was an interpolation added by the church fathers to prove the Trinity doctrine.
it is in the NASB in a footnote form.Reverend Dake talks about it. :scrambleup:
Jesus as the Word came forth from the grave because death has no dominion over Him.Rom 6:9.
the Word or Logos is alive Rev 1:18.

He was and is the Almighty God manifested in the flesh.1 Tim 3:16...Rom 9:6 ...Rev 1:8


Ironman wrote:I'm struggling with this. I posted this in the baptizing in the name thread in reply to one of billies posts.

My Post,
"I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word who cannot die, raise up the man, who can die, Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard for me to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? "
.



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Ironman
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:
Ironman wrote:I'm struggling with this. I posted this in the baptizing in the name thread in reply to one of billies posts.

My Post,
"I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word who cannot die, raise up the man, who can die, Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard for me to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? "
.

Haz, i am no expert on theology... my belief is that all the confusion comes from the belief that there is only one person in the Godhead not 3.

As the 2nd adam, Jesus had to die body, soul and spirit as did the first adam.

We must remember that Jesus upholds ALL THINGS by the word of His power, so that everything He said before His death would come to pass as He stated it would.

Every prophesy that pertains to Jesus must come to pass on the strength of that one statement in Hebrews... if not, Jesus is not God.

macca
Yes, I agree macca, I believe in God the Father, separate and distinct, God the Son, separate and distinct, who was the Word, John 1;1, and who became flesh, John 1:14, and God the Holy Ghost, also a separate and distinct member of the Godhead,and these three are "ONE" in unity, not bodily!

I some times ponder over the Word! I know He divested Himself of His power and divinity and became man so He could die for our sins because only as a man could He die.

My brain is thinking on this at times, not arguing or disputing anything regarding whats revealed in the Godhead. The Word, who was with God and we know He was God, John 1:1, became a man and died! Then as the Scripture billy quoted, raised Himself! and other Scriptures say the Father raised Him! No argument from me here either. But its awesome! The Word who cannot die, became a man, and died, then as Jesus said, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."(John 2;19);

And

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." (John 10:18).

He recieved this commandment from His Father! Thats just so awesome!!
The Word divested Himself of His power, glory and divinity and became a man so He could die, He died, then took up His life again!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: JESUS THE " I AM"

Post by Ironman »

branham1965 wrote:hey Haz :rainbow1:
Jesus as a Man died.He gave His life a Ransom for us all and as an Offering for SIN.He was the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world and which taketh away the sin of the world.
He died for our sins and by His stripes we are healed.He was raised for our justification.
His blood was called God's Blood in Acts 20:28 by Doctor Luke.
Jesus was very God and very Man here on the earth.now in 1 John 5:7 the Word was spoken of there.
now this verse IS controversial.many say it was an interpolation added by the church fathers to prove the Trinity doctrine.
it is in the NASB in a footnote form.Reverend Dake talks about it. :scrambleup:
Jesus as the Word came forth from the grave because death has no dominion over Him.Rom 6:9.
the Word or Logos is alive Rev 1:18.

He was and is the Almighty God manifested in the flesh.1 Tim 3:16...Rom 9:6 ...Rev 1:8


Ironman wrote:I'm struggling with this. I posted this in the baptizing in the name thread in reply to one of billies posts.

My Post,
"I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word who cannot die, raise up the man, who can die, Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard for me to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? "
.
I am lost for words billy, absolutley awesome, unbelieveable, yet true. Thats why fundamental Christianity believes in the trinity which is not mentioned once in Scripture, Trinity! it was bashed into me and you and many millions of others of us as children. Three beings in one body, but we now know different, three separate and distince members of the Godhead, three God beings, which are only "ONE" in UNITY. They are not OMNI-BODY!

Billy, I'm gob-smacked regarding the Word who became flesh and blood and died in the flesh, yet He is an eternal God being, John 1:1.

Me talking now, Not Scriptural, and I am not arguing with doctrin, or surmising anything thats not true, I am just writing down my thoughst here, nothing more!

Just a question I sometime ask myself . . I wonder about?.

Did the Word, have a three day and three night gap / break . . in His eternal, No beginning and No end, "I Am," part of His eternal life His as a member of the Godhead, ie. (John 1:1?) when He became a man and died, fully God and fully man!


The Word. He is now sitting at the Fathers right hand in Heaven in a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39) "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

This glorified flesh and bones body, is the same as we will have one day as promised!
Jesus, when He returned for the Father, passed through a solid wall into a fully closed room, no windows, with this body! He came back straight from Heaven after meeting with the Father. He went to Heaven and back in the same day. Where is Heaven? Somewhere in the northern part of the Universe, so far away the Hubble telescope cannot see it, the most powerfull telescopes in the world on the highest mountains on Earth cannot see it. It takes millions of light years, traveling at 186,000 miles per second, and miles per minute (60 seconds x 186,000) would be 11,160,000 miles per minute therefore miles per hour ...to get to the nearest stars or galaxies? Heaven is at least that far away, Jesus went there, spent time with the Father, and came back that evening! AWSOME!
Last edited by Ironman on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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