Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus!

[macca]

macca,
Do you believe that,
JESUS IS GOD
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS ?

Yes i believe Jesus is God.
Yes i believe the Holy Spirit is God.
Yes i believe the Father is God.

No i do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ Jesus. as Jesus has His own spirit and soul, as the Father and the Holy Spirit have their own spirit and soul.

macca

[Ironman]

macca,
Do you believe that,
JESUS IS GOD
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS ?

Yes i believe Jesus is God.
Yes i believe the Holy Spirit is God.
Yes i believe the Father is God.

No i do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ Jesus. as Jesus has His own spirit and soul, as the Father and the Holy Spirit have their own spirit and soul.


macca

This is what Haz believes!

Yes I believe Jesus is God.
Yes I believe the Holy Spirit is God.
Yes I believe the Father is God.

No, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ Jesus.

Jesus has His body, His own spirit and His own soul, as the Father and the Holy Spirit have their own bodies, their own spirit and their own soul.

When Jesus was baptized he was on the Earth, he came out of the water, and He saw the Holy Spirit sent from God the Father who was in Heaven, and also a voice from Heaven, His Father telling us how pleased He was with Jesus His Son.

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17).

1. Jesus a person on Earth in His body.
2. The Holy Spirit decending from Heaven in the shape of a dove, another person.
3. The Father in Heaven, the third person!

[Ray]

macca,
Do you believe that,
JESUS IS GOD
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS ?

Yes i believe Jesus is God.
Yes i believe the Holy Spirit is God.
Yes i believe the Father is God.

No i do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ Jesus. as Jesus has His own spirit and soul, as the Father and the Holy Spirit have their own spirit and soul.

macca

macca and Haz,
The Spirit Of GOD and The Spirit Of JESUS are in fact ONE and The SAME HOLY SPIRIT.Is this not speaking of The Holy Spirit mentioned in the following verses?

Romans 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Peter 1:11
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Philippians 1:19
19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 7:40
40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 15:19
19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.


JESUS IS GOD
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

[macca]

Thanks Ray. i see where you are coming from now.

Please consider Matthew. 12. 31-32;
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the SON OF MAN, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Also in John. 14, 15 and 16; Jesus calls the Holy Spirit another comforter

He was seen with the natural eyes as being separate from the Father and the Son.
Matthew. 3:16-17; Luke. 3:21-22; John. 1:31-34;

What about when Jesus was in the womb of Mary and the Holy Spirit that was not in Mary's womb, and who filled others Luke. 1:15, 39-41, 67-79;

And what about the Samaritans in Acts. 8:5-25; who had received Jesus but not the Holy Spirit?

There are many more that do not make any sense if you believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.

macca

[branham1965]

macca,
remember when Jesus said no man taketh my life....I lay it down I take it up again???cf John 10:17-18....remember in John 2:19 where He said I will destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up???that was one of the most common things railed against Him at the Passion and His Cross.
i know that we all believe Jesus Christ is God.
my question is
if folks accept the traditional Protestant interpretation of the Trinity which is just like the Catholic position ie :God is three Persons but yet one but its an incomprehensible mystery...which is different from the view here by the good late Reverend.his opponents like Hank Hanagraaf call him a tritheist.

i just dont see why folks reject Bishop Sabellius who was Oneness.Bishop Athanasius the Trinitarian fought Arius tooth and nail.
really if honest we all get our view of the Godhead from one of these 3 men.with some variations in some cases.
Sabellius said there is One God who manifested Himself in 3 ways as the Father in creation,the Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in regeneration and indwelling cf John 14-16.
Bishop T.D Jakes believes this.William Branham did as well.
most folks in Christendom accept at least T.D. Jakes today.

The Scripture is clear - baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is not taught by Jesus Christ, and those who do baptize in the name of Jesus ONLY are disobeying the words of Jesus!

The “Jesus-only” sect, who contend that baptism should be only in Jesus' name, and who deceitfully prey upon honest and ignorant souls, may claim they obey Mt. 28:19, but they never obey it; they never recognize it in baptism; and they always re-baptize those who have been baptized according to Mt. 28:19. If they claim to obey Mt. 28:19, then insist that they baptize you this way and see how they back down in their claim and see a concrete example of deliberate rejection of part of the Bible. Could not Jesus have said in Mt. 28:19 what Jesus-only people teach, if that is really what He meant to say? If He did not say what they teach, then that is not what He means, and we had better reject their fallacy on baptism and obey Mt. 28:19. We must either reject this false teaching or reject God. One cannot believe and obey both, for they are just the opposite of each other.

The preposition “of” and the conjunction “and” repeated each time before each of the three names in Mt. 28:19 further prove three separate persons. If one would say “a gift of John and of James and of George” he means a gift from three persons, not one. Jesus did not say baptize upon the authority of His name only, but also in the name of, or by the authority of, the Father and of the Holy Ghost. He did not tell them to do this until He came back in ten days as the Holy Ghost, as Jesus-only people teach, but He did say, “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you . . . even unto the end of the world.” There would have been no better time than right here for Jesus to have frankly told the disciples that He was the only God and the Father and the Holy Ghost and all of God, but instead He revealed three separate persons in the Godhead. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 485.

Hi Bibleman,
I don't think Peter and Paul was familiar with Rev. Dake's teaching on Baptism.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Acts 19:4-5
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Ray.. every thing they did in the book of Acts was "in the authority of Jesus" Jesus had told them " in my name cast out devils,heal the sick, preach the gospel etc"
so it is no shock that they baptised in the name of Jesus,,vis,, In the name of Jesus i baptise you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
or is this the only command of Jesus that they did not obey?

macca

JESUS IS GOD
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS

So according to your interpretation of Acts. 2:24-32;
Jesus raised up Jesus's body from the grave, raised his own soul from hell and in verse 32 He was beside himself when He raised Himself up????????
macca

[macca]

Billy,Thats where those you mention and i differ on our understanding of the Godhead....

I find no mystery whatsoever in the bible's explanation of who and what God is.

Even that first verse you quoted in John. 10:17-18; proves to me of two persons seperate from each other..
The end of verse 18 Jesus states " This commandment have I received of my Father"
If Jesus is His own Father how can He give Himself a commanment to raise Himself up from the dead?

And if Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit how can He be dead in the grave with His soul and spirit in hell? that means the Godhead is dead! utter nonsense..

IF PEOPLE WOULD JUST BELIEVE WHAT IS PLAINLY STATED IN THE BIBLE all this stupid confusion about the Godhead would disappear overnight.

But no! we must believe what men say about God, for no one can understand God....i AM FED UP TO THE BACK TEETH WITH THIS GARBAGE THEY PUMP OUT IN THE NAME OF "RIGHTLY DiVIDING THE WORD OF GOD" phooy, its all a plot of satan to confuse the world and keep people from the truth.

The main reason that the churches teach that it is a mystery is to enslave their people in fear of the unknown so they (the churches) can controll the ignorant.

macca

[Ironman]

Billy, maccas right mate. There are many Scriptures plainly and clearly stating that the Father, who remained in Heaven, raised up Jesus after three days and three nights.

"Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." (1 Peter 1:21).

"But God raised him from the dead:" (Acts 13:30).

"But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;" (Romans 4:24).

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9).

"And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power." (1 Cor. 6:14).
LOOK,
"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;"(Gal.1:1).

"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,"(Eph. 1:20).

"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."(Coll. 2:12).

"Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." (1 Peter 1:21).

There is no way anyone can miss-understand this Scripture, The Father Raised Up Jesus From the Dead!

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;"(Gal.1:1).

Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture, Godhead is mentioned three times.Jesus is one member of the Godhead,

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."(Acts 17:29),

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"(Romans 1:20),

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Coll. 2:9).


Haz.

[branham1965]

macca,
i understand what you are saying.

i think you would agree most Protestants teach a form of Athanasius' Trinity Doctrine.it was brought in over from the Church of Rome during the Reformation.

Apostolics believe like Sabellius taught.One God is manifested in three Divine Manifestations.William Branham believed this.though he differed with the Oneness Pentecostals in some minor areas.he did baptize (scripturally i believe)in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
some Charismatics and Pentecostals who are Trinitarian actually baptize in the Name of Jesus.

im not trying to upset you mate.just trying to talk.i am going to post like an Ohio gentleman from now on.

[the_truth]

Is GOD THREE or ONE? Some say GOD is THREE others say HE is ONE. Then some say GOD is TWO. Some say HE is a Trinity others say HE is only ONE".

What did the Apostle's say?

Unto us, there is not but ONE GOD, The Father. 1 Cor 8.6, Eph 4:6. That's what the Apostle Paul penned by the Spirit of GOD ALMIGHTY.

Me: i say as the Apostle Paul and the saints of old, there is ONE GOD, The Father, and ONE LORD, CHRIST. That settles it for me.

Many people don't understand that the ONE GOD, The Father, gave HIS Son the same power and authority that HE(THE FATHER) had. Not only did THE FATHER give him the same authority and power, HE gave THE SON a more excellent Name than all. Heb 1:4. His Name came by inheritance. This proves 100% that CHRIST inherited God's Name.

[Ironman]

Is GOD THREE or ONE? Some say GOD is THREE others say HE is ONE. Then some say GOD is TWO. Some say HE is a Trinity others say HE is only ONE".

What did the Apostle's say?

Unto us, there is not but ONE GOD, The Father. 1 Cor 8.6, Eph 4:6. That's what the Apostle Paul penned by the Spirit of GOD ALMIGHTY.

Me: i say as the Apostle Paul and the saints of old, there is ONE GOD, The Father, and ONE LORD, CHRIST. That settles it for me.

Many people don't understand that the ONE GOD, The Father, gave HIS Son the same power and authority that HE(THE FATHER) had. Not only did THE FATHER give him the same authority and power, HE gave THE SON a more excellent Name than all. Heb 1:4. His Name came by inheritance. This proves 100% that CHRIST inherited God's Name.

God th Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are "ONE" in unity only. They are three separate and distinct persons but they are one in unity in all things.

There are many Scriptures plainly and clearly stating that the Father, who remained in Heaven, raised up Jesus after three days and three nights.

"Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." (1 Peter 1:21).

"But God raised him from the dead:" (Acts 13:30).

"But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;" (Romans 4:24).

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9).

"And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power." (1 Cor. 6:14).
LOOK,
"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;"(Gal.1:1).

"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,"(Eph. 1:20).

"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."(Coll. 2:12).

"Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." (1 Peter 1:21).

There is no way anyone can miss-understand this Scripture, The Father Raised Up Jesus From the Dead!

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;"(Gal.1:1).

Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture, Godhead is mentioned three times.Jesus is one member of the Godhead,

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."(Acts 17:29),

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"(Romans 1:20),

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Coll. 2:9).

Fundamental Christianity generally teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Trinity are one, that is, united, in one body.

The word Trinity is not mentioned once in Scripture in the entire Bible. The word Godhead is mentioned three times in; (Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:20; Col. 2:9). The term Godhead simply means that which is divine. It is used of Jesus Himself in (Col. 2:9-10), "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," "And ye are complete IN HIM which is the head of all principality and power." (Jesus overcame all principalities and powers by His death and resurrection). We are complete in Him only in unity as He, the Father, and the Holy Ghost are one in unity and not bodily.

The word Trinity means the union of the three persons in the Godhead, each who IS called God and Lord in various Scriptures throughout the Bible, and who are "Self-existent" and "Eternal." In Psalm 110:1; Matt. 22:44; Zech. 2:10-11 we have the Father and the Son both called "Lord," and when we read Ex. 16:7 with Heb. 3:7-8 and Isa. 6:8-9 with Acts 28:25 and Ex. 17:7 with Heb. 3:7-9, and Jer. 31:31-34 with Heb. 10:15-16 these Scriptures prove that the Holy Spirit is also called "Lord." The Holy Spirit is distinctly called God in Acts 5:3-4. Here Peter here askes Ananias, why he kept back part of the price . . . why Ananias let Satan fill his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost . . . and Peter goes on to say Ananias had not lied to men but to God."

God the Father, God the Son, AND God the Holy Ghost, in one (unified) Godhead or divinity, so that all three persons are one in unity and eternal substance, but three separate and distinct persons as to indivuality. Three separate and distinct persons are spoken of in (1 John 5:7). Jesus Himself declared and taught us to go forth and baptize in the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19).

Scriptures such as "one Lord" (Deut 6:4) and "one God" (Mal. 2:10) means unitied, or united in one. Similarly, the scriptures "They shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); "the people are one" (Gen. 11:6), do not mean all the people are one in body.

In the beginning God revealed the Godhead as consisting of more than one person. In Gen. 2:26 "And God said, LET US make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS." Also in Gen. 3:22 He plainly said, "The man is become AS ONE OF US." The phrase "as one of" means "like each person of several persons of the same kind," as proved wherever the statement "as one of" is found in Scripture (Gen. 19:14; 42:27; 49:16; Ex. 12:48; Lev. 19:34; 24:22; Num. 12:12; 2 Sam. 13:13; 14:13; Job 12:4; ect., no person uses such a phrase and not refer to more than one person who could make "us." If God refers to the Godhead as "us" we should take it that He knows what He is talking about and that there are more than one person in the Godhead.

In John 1:1 we have the statement, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word became flesh and dwelt among us in John 1:14. We know the Word God took upon Himself a flesh and bone body and became Jesus. We must ask ourselves which God was the Word with in the beginning in John 1:1? He was with the Father for in (1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3) Paul said that "Christ was God's and God was "the head of Christ." Jesus dwelt amongst us whilst the Father remained in Heaven.

Acts 2:33-39 referes to three separate persons of the deity: It is said of Jesus [one person], "Therefore being BY THE RIGHT HAND of God exalted and having RECIEVED OF THE FATHER [another person] the promise OF THE HOLY GHOST [a third person] He hath shed forth THIS [the Holy Ghost] which ye now SEE and HEAR." Thus TWO persons, Jesus in His flesh and bone body, and the Father who is spirit, stayed in Heaven sitting side by side, and the Holy Ghost (a third person) came from the two in Heaven to take the place of Jesus among men.

If God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are "one God" in one body, all the Scriptures mentioned above are lies, and if they are lies then the whole Bible cannot be believed.

The fact that Jesus took upon Himself a flesh and bone body and that He was resurrected and STILL HAS His flesh and bone body and sits at the Fathers right hand in Heaven in it, (Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), is proved by His statement to His disciples; "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39); and to Thomas Jesus said; "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing" (John 20:27). And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord AND my God" (John 21:28).

How could Jesus, a self confessed flesh and bones being, be sitting at the Fathers right hand [the Father being spirit] in Heaven and be "one" in body with the Father? Jesus Himself said above, "Spirit doth not have flesh and bone as ye see me have." If Jesus and the Father are "one" in body, then the Father must be flesh and bone, or Jesus must be spirit, and this would be a lie. Jesus will have His flesh and bone body for all eternity (Zech. 13:6).

And what was Jesus saying and asking the Father when He prayed to the Father this prayer;

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE" (John 17:11).

And, "That they MAY BE ONE; as thou, Father art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou has sent me" (John 17:21).

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, even AS WE ARE ONE: I in them, and thou IN ME, that they may be made perfect IN ONE; and that the world may know etc., (John 17:22-23). "And I have declared unto them thy name, and I will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, AND I IN THEM" (John 17:26).

Jesus prayed to the Father to keep His disciples and all His followers "one in unity" as He and the Father were. He never asked the Father to allow all the followers and disciples all to get inside one of them and form "one body" as fundamental Christianity wrongly teaches Jesus and the Father are.

Jesus upbraided the disciples not for their misunderstanding, but for their unbelief (Mark 16:13-14), and he will upbraid us as well if we do not believe who He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are. They are one in unity not body as these plain simple Scriptures state.

Jesus said;

"And the Father Himself, [one person] which hath sent me [another person, hath born WITNESS OF ME. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape (JOhn 5:37). How can this Scripture be true if they are "ONE" as fundamental Christianity teaches?

Jesus instructs us to "Search the Scriptures; for in the ye THINK ye have eternal life: and they which testify of me" (John 5:39). How can we pray to a God if we do not know who He is? Jesus said, "Ask me nothing. Verily verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father IN MY NAME, He will give it you"(John 16:23). The Father never refuses Jesus anything, so when we ask the Father in the Name of Jesus, to the Father its like Jesus asking the Father Himself. They are two separate individual self existant beings, sitting beside each other in Heaven. This is as clear and as simple to believe as any other doctrin in the Bible. Our plain common sense tells us that one person cannot sit beside himself, and God would not expect us to believe He sits beside Himself in two types of bodies, constantly transforming Himself at will, asking Himself questions and invoking prayers in His Jesus Name, and then answering them to His Jesus self as the Father. To believe this theory of Satan, which is continued by men is plain madness.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted and be declared a mystery is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself understood. He will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what men interpret His words to say. He has a right to judge men in the end if they constantly make Him false in all that He says, if they listen to satanic theories. "He that rejecteth me, and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" (John 12:48; Rev. 20:11-15). This should be enough for men to quit the foolishness of changing God's Word to mean anything they want it to mean? It is the height of ignorance for anyone to claim to know God better than He has revealed Himself to be.

The Trinity consists of three divine beings each with their own separate body, soul, and Spirit as over 500 Scriptures prove. To deny this and believe that God is three persons in one body is to believe the theories of men which cannot be supported Scripturally.