Dake Bible Discussion BoardUniversalism is the child of false salvation

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Ironman
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by Ironman »

the_truth wrote:
Ironman wrote:
"Billy,
That is why it is important to love and not judge. You judged Roger very harshly for taking a position that you consider non-biblical, though he has given Scripture."
.

I came down hard on agabus too. Who's judging who?

There is not one Scripture in the entire Bible that teaches Hell is only a temporary abode for satan and sinners, and there is not one Scripture that teaches Satan will be reconciled to the Father through Jesus?

I never saw one Scripture that he provided that said any of the above!
I can't speak for Roger. The "Lake of Fire" is not just some temporary abode. It is the WRATH of GOD. Now, some people that believe in "universalism", which I don't, or who believe in reconciliation believe that Satan and his messengers are reconciled, which means that also good Angels must be reconciled.

It becomes a moot point, whether the Good Angels or the Bad Angels are reconciled because the NEW CREATION which has the LIKENESS of CHRIST renders death and the ability to commit sin impossible because THE NEW CREATION cannot and will not sin. Even, if we were tempted it will be of no use. Which means that even if the Angels were allowed to live their power would become null and void. What power do they have? NOTHING! They had power in this Age, but in the next, they will have NONE. No Power in Heaven, neither in the Earth.

That is why for me. Whether they are destroyed, reconciled, or punished to live again is a moot point!
The angels who are with God, who never rebelled with Lucifer, will never rebell, now or in the future. We who are tested now, those who failed, who repented and remain in Christ untill He returns those who are raptured, and those who go through the millennium and survive and repent and arein Jesus and enter the New heavens and the New Earth will never rebell, sin,or deny God or jesus. The sinning angels who were tested and failed, who rebelled with Lucifer will also never sin again or be able to rebell again because they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and will be tortured, day and night, forever and ever! (Rev. 20:10). Thats how I see the Scriptures!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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scottae316
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by scottae316 »

macca wrote:...
One of the signs of a person that is in error is they attack anyone that they perceive to off in any jot or tittle.
...
macca
True words have never been spoken.



the_truth

Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by the_truth »

Ironman wrote: The angels who are with God, who never rebelled with Lucifer, will never rebell, now or in the future. Thats how I see the Scriptures!
Haz,
Prove through the Scriptures that the angels that never rebelled can't. That's a mighty big assumption.

If they can't rebel now and in the next Age, then how did that One Angel(the Devil) rebel in the first place. The fact that the Devil did rebel means that the remaining Angels can also.

IF the first Adam were like CHRIST, it would have made no difference if the that One Angel caused the whole host to follow him. IT would have all been for nought. Why? Because The Earth that then was would have still been under Adam's Power. Adam gave his power and authority that GOD gave him to the Devil by becoming a "servant" to him by obeying what The Devil said.

Death would have been of no power because SIN would not been brought forth. Therefore, creation would still be in Harmony. That is Scripture. The Devil and HIS adversaries would not have been able to entice not ONE thing, but ONLY their own kind. Without sin being manifested, the rebellious Angels have no power.[b/] That is Scripture.



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Ironman
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by Ironman »

the-truth wrote;
"Haz,
Prove through the Scriptures that the angels that never rebelled can't. That's a mighty big assumption."
.

No bigger than believing Hell is only a temporary place of punishment.

I'm not assuming they cannot sin, they will not sin. They were tested when Lucifer rebelled and tried to invade Heaven and dethrone God. He fell and dragged on third, not the whole host of angels as you stated, down with him.

Its like when God tested Abraham. After testing Abraham and Abrahan passing the test God said;

"And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." (Gen. 22:12). God knew then that Abraham would obey Him for ever, and Abraham has and is in Heaven.

When the third of the angels joined Lucifer they failed, God knew then the two thirds who never rebelled with Lucifer would remain faithfull. Its that easy!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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bibleman
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by bibleman »

dolph wrote:Haz, like the_Truth said, you have no scripture to support that an angel can't rebel against God. Has something changed in the nature of angels since Lucifer's rebellion that now prevents them from sinning?
Hi dolph,

Do you have any "scripture to support that JESUS can't rebel against God?"


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branham1965
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by branham1965 »

macca
im sorry.
please forgive me.i like you.and you are mates with Haz.and he is my best mate.
i cannot present things like some do.Bibleman has a masters degree and is a theologian. Reuben :angel: ...he talks like he is a Christian Clint Eastwood only a Preacher.he is cool.
you are -were a Preacher.and are smart as can be.
Haz is an ironman Mick Dundee on here.and he knows the Bible .
im just a barber.i graduated from high school and barber school. +goofy i was really saved at 14 in Warren.
things happened and i got really saved in August at 50.
i tried +goofy to use the Brother Branham -F.F.Bosworth thing.he was Oneness but best friends with Brother Bosworth.T.L.Osborn and Daisy loved him.Gordon Lindsay did.so i was presenting my views with that intent.and the Lord knows it was not to maliciously divide or be a wolf or snake.or pm folks etc.remember i told Rocky and told others please talk to your Pastor.there is an order.im not a Minister or ...im just a lay person.can we agree to disagree???i was not responded to mate.
but in my zeal-excitement i posted things on here that ...sighs.... :agrue:
Godspeed mate.i wear my hat Haz sent me with pride.you guys were amazing lights there.
one day i dream to see the land down under.

macca wrote:
branham1965 wrote::vamp: this is the candy ... the flavor of the month.
Rob Bell has bats :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: in his belfrey.and he and his cohorts are deceiving people.
they did in the late 1800's.nothing is new under the sun.
Pastor Russell reached=misled.duped,damned ... more people than these guys ever dreamed of.he was called America's Spurgeon. :crazyeyes: +CrazyEyes +CrazyEyes :shocked!: he croaked this month in 1916 on a Pullman train in Texas.
Reverend Dake mentioned him in the DARB and GPFM.and referred to him in BTU.if he did in RE or other books im unaware of it.

the question is what constitutes true salvation??? i know i need to be careful here.
but many Church folks do not understand what it means.
AND IT IS the fruit of such ignorance and in some cases willful rebellion and stupidity which births these :vamp: :vamp: :vamp: :vamp: teachings.
true salvation requires everything.there is no middle ground.no half stepping.no foot in the world, no sinning everyday its a death of the old man and our number 1 enemy.not even the devil.not other people.not God.not the Preacher.our number one enemy is US.
true salvation requires the death of the seeker.Rom 6-8;Acts 2:38-39.
the person must repent and be put to death with Jesus Christ in the Name of Jesus a natural human being then be raised up with Him a spiritual being a new creature.the seeker must receive the Holy Ghost like the people in Acts did.and speak in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance.
no man on earth has a right to pretend to have the Keys the Lord gave Peter Matt 16 and bind or loose what God hath not bound or loosed!!!!

when salvation is a head game.or i think i am saved or who knows :crazyeyes: proposition then its easy to fall for any kind of nonsense.

when one is met in salvation by Jesus Himself and one lives it.... it is much much harder to fool a real Holy Ghost Pentecostal.


Billy :shocked!: You are preaching false doctrine here... you can not trash Roger and expect to get away with your own brand of isolationism.....

One of the signs of a person that is in error is they attack anyone that they perceive to off in any jot or tittle.

You had a great deliverance Billy, but that does not make everything they teach gospel. be very carefull brother or you will go the way of the ditch..

macca



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branham1965
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by branham1965 »

you know i just dont understand this.
you are judging me right now saying those things to me.are you not??? you teach satan will be redeemed.no thanks. i stated the position of the Apostolic Church.
you are teaching Universalism.which is your right to believe and teach.and its allowed here.you say the Holy Spirit Baptism is not for all believers.or not tongues.now that contradicts Reverend Dakes teachings 100%%%.

holiness and living free from sin is something peculiar to Pentecostal doctrine and it only can be accomplished by Pentecostal means.
the_truth wrote:Billy,
That is why it is important to love and not judge. You judged Roger very harshly for taking a position that you consider non-biblical, though he has given Scripture. Now, you have taken a subject such as "speaking in tongues" and making that a litmus test to determine who has received the Holy Spirit or not and who is saved. And you can provide no Scripture that supports that belief.

My friend, one can prove from the Bible that "Speaking in Tongues" is A GIFT of the Spirit. A GIFT that is not given to EVERY believer. Paul proved that very succinctly in HIS Epistle to the Corinthians.

I believe in "tongues", it is Biblical. But it does not determine Salvation. If it was that easy, then the Holy Ghost would have written and say "HE that speaks in tongues is saved". Acts 2:38 says be Baptized and you shall receive THE gift of the Holy Ghost? And THE GIFT of the Holy Ghost is NOT just "tongues".

One's Salvation is PROVED by their obedience to the Word which is manifested by the Fruits of the Spirit.



the_truth

Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by the_truth »

branham1965 wrote:you know i just dont understand this.
you are judging me right now saying those things to me.are you not??? you teach satan will be redeemed.no thanks. i stated the position of the Apostolic Church.
you are teaching Universalism.which is your right to believe and teach.and its allowed here.you say the Holy Spirit Baptism is not for all believers.or not tongues.now that contradicts Reverend Dakes teachings 100%%%.

holiness and living free from sin is something peculiar to Pentecostal doctrine and it only can be accomplished by Pentecostal means.
I'm not judging you. Re-read your comments to Roger. Both you and Haz. The comments said to him are not of love. I stand by that statement.

Now let's get some facts straight because you are creating a strawman argument thereby trying to make me look like a fool.

FACT.
1. I repeated and posted in early posts that Universalism is NOT in the Scripture. And I don't believe in Universalism. I believe in the reconciliation of all things according to what is taught in the Scripture.
2. I already posted ref Iron regarding Satan being redeemed. It is a moot point. And i proved that through the Scripture.
2. I did not say that the Holy Spirit Baptism is NOT for all people. I said the Gift of Tongues IS NOT given to every believer. Acts 2:38 says be baptized and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, NOT the Gift of Tongues. What is the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is NOT tongues. Tongues is a gift amongst many.

You may have stated the Apostolic Faith, but that doesn't mean that it can't be in error regarding tongues. If any man say that Tongues is the only sign that indicates the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then they must prove through the Scriptures and i believe that can't be done.
BTW, I believe in Tongues and it is a gift to be desired by all believers, but it is not the only sign that validates the Baptism.



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branham1965
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Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by branham1965 »

im not trying to make you look like a fool. i will be honest.i dont know you. i dont agree with your theology.
you did not prove your propositions in my view whatsoever.im not alone in my opinion im sure.
i believe ..... when people are filled with the Spirit =baptized in the Holy Ghost the inital sign is speaking in tongues.the Assemblies of God teaches this .in every instance when believers got the Holy Ghost they...spoke in other tongues.not all have the gift of tongues.but all who have the Holy Ghost baptism speak in other tongues.and by the way the burden of proof is on you.Pentecostals of all denominations believe that.but you do not.
you teach people are ok who are NOT ok with God.and are going to hell eternally. you deny Hebrews 6.anyone teaching satan and the devils of hell are going to be redeemed is a Biblical illiterate.and i dont care what their degrees are.it should have jumped off in their spirits +scream +scream +scream +afraid +afraid +afraid +CrazyEyes to teach such a thing.and once again the burden of proof is on you.no Evangelical or Christian of any kind believes that.no Pentecostal ever would.and this is a real Pentecostal board.
the_truth wrote:
branham1965 wrote:you know i just dont understand this.
you are judging me right now saying those things to me.are you not??? you teach satan will be redeemed.no thanks. i stated the position of the Apostolic Church.
you are teaching Universalism.which is your right to believe and teach.and its allowed here.you say the Holy Spirit Baptism is not for all believers.or not tongues.now that contradicts Reverend Dakes teachings 100%%%.

holiness and living free from sin is something peculiar to Pentecostal doctrine and it only can be accomplished by Pentecostal means.
I'm not judging you. Re-read your comments to Roger. Both you and Haz. The comments said to him are not of love. I stand by that statement.

Now let's get some facts straight because you are creating a strawman argument thereby trying to make me look like a fool.

FACT.
1. I repeated and posted in early posts that Universalism is NOT in the Scripture. And I don't believe in Universalism. I believe in the reconciliation of all things according to what is taught in the Scripture.[b/]
2. I already posted ref Iron regarding Satan being redeemed. It is a moot point. And i proved that through the Scripture.
2. I did not say that the Holy Spirit Baptism is NOT for all people. I said the Gift of Tongues IS NOT given to every believer. Acts 2:38 says be baptized and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, NOT the Gift of Tongues. What is the[b/] gift of the Holy Ghost. It is NOT tongues. Tongues is a gift amongst many.

You may have stated the Apostolic Faith, but that doesn't mean that it can't be in error. If any man say that Tongues is the only sign that indicates the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then they must prove through Scriptures and it can't be done.
BTW, I believe in Tongues and it is a gift to be desired by all believers, but it is not the only sign that validates the Baptism.



the_truth

Re: Universalism is the child of false salvation

Post by the_truth »

branham1965 wrote: you teach people are ok who are NOT ok with God.and are going to hell eternally. you deny Hebrews 6.anyone teaching satan and the devils of hell are going to be redeemed is a Biblical illiterate.and i dont care what their degrees are.it should have jumped off in their spirits +scream +scream +scream +afraid +afraid +afraid +CrazyEyes to teach such a thing.and once again the burden of proof is on you.no Evangelical or Christian of any kind believes that.no Pentecostal ever would.and this is a real Pentecostal board.
Billy,
1. Where did i say that people are ok who are not ok with God. Point me to the post and quote the text from it.
2. You claim i deny Hebrew 6. Point me to post where I said that Hebrew 6 is false. BTW, Genesis to Revelation and every word contained therein is True.
3. Where did I say that the devils or a more better term The Adversary and his messengers will be redeemed. Point me to post and and quote the text.

Now this board has the "quote" mechanism. Use the quote mechanism to show that i said what you said.

(edited by admin to take out inflammatory language)



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