Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Modern "GRACE" gospel

[branham1965]

what do folks here think of this gospel of Grace???
who on earth is Joseph Prince???is he right on or bad off???

a fellow who lives by me who is a sinner a drinker etc...and is shacking up with his girlfriend told me its ok.its all Grace only now.


what say ye???? i know what i think.im wondering what others say.is this a abuse of this man's teaching???or does he teach this kind of ...stuff.

[cpbeller]

Personally, I like Joseph Prince. I have not heard him preach an abuse of grace. But, yes, his message could be taken out of context like that. After all, Paul the Apostle had to set the Church straight on that very topic, because ppl were saying he taught that as well.

Just remember: It is by GRACE through faith that we are saved, not by works, lest any man should boast. And it is that GRACE that is the gift of God.

[cpbeller]

I never said there would not be works...but what does James say? He said, show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. But that is the thing, we do the works, not to be saved, but because we are saved. Works cannot, in no way, ever save us. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before him.

Yes, faith without works is dead, but once a person starts to rely on their works, then they are in trouble. It is by grace through faith. Once we start looking at our works, even once we start looking at our faith, we take our eyes off of Christ. Once we start focusing on our works, and how good we are, we are no longer in grace, and then, we are no longer grace dispencers. That is what the Christian life is all about. Being grace dispencers. Our works should be to the glory of God, and to show forth the love of Christ. But once we take our eyes off of the grace, and look to our works, we are no longer living the love life, we are no longer living for the benefit of others, as Christ, Himself, did. Once we start looking at our own good works, we begin to build ourselves up, and pride is usually the result. What does Scripture say about pride? (Proverbs 16:18)

We are to follow Christ's example. He died to save us. That is what our lives should reflect. That is what being Christ-like is all about. Living a life to bless others. Living a life, sacrificing our own selves, for the betterment of others, being grace dispencers to a lost world. And the more we have Christ, the more we follow after Christ, the more grace we will dispence. Why? Because we are focusing on the Grace of God, which led us to Christ, and which will also lead others to him through us. We are His body in this world. And without Him, we are nothing. But with Him, we are more than conquerors. But we should not be more than conquerors for ourselves. Christ was not a conqueror for Himself, He lived and died for this lost world. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. And while we were enemies, Christ died for us. We, too, should live that life. We, too, should live that life that gives, being grace dispencers. But we cannot do that if we are looking at our own works as great and mighty. Or trying to make our works as great and mighty. We take our eyes off the Grace, and then we fail. Why? Because we are no longer in grace, we are in our own rightousness, and we know what that looks like....

[Rocky]

what do folks here think of this gospel of Grace???
who on earth is Joseph Prince???is he right on or bad off???

a fellow who lives by me who is a sinner a drinker etc...and is shacking up with his girlfriend told me its ok.its all Grace only now.


what say ye???? i know what i think.im wondering what others say.is this a abuse of this man's teaching???or does he teach this kind of ...stuff.

When I first came to know the Lord I was very much into his teachings until I bought his book. He is off doctrinally if you line up with what he says and teaches with scripture, and he is extreme WOF, in to the wealth prosperity gospel in its extreme form. And believes that Christians do not not have to confess sin in order to be forgiven because he claims that 1 John was not written to christian but to Gnostics. But if you study 1 John, the letter is to Christians about Gnostic's. His message of grace is not all bad but it is only a half truth and is a bit off. I believe His message of grace conflicts with the book of James and 1 John and even some of Paul's writings. His theology to me after reading his book is kind of a once in grace always in grace hybrid. I also heard him say its not good even to preach on sin so if you like Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince is going to be really appealing aswell. Mater of fact Joseph prince taught at Osteens' church. But I believ he is a christian and I would not brand him as an all out heretic, But his teachings are not represented in the bible.

[cpbeller]

I have never read any of his books...only seen a few of his sermons on TV. What I heard, I liked, though. But I do not have any extensive knowledge of him.

But, I do feel, though, that there is a major misunderstanding of the grace of God in the Church today. I have been to Pentacostal Churches where the ppl didn't know from one moment to the next whether or not they were saved, thinking they were falling in and out of grace with every other step they took. That leads to a life of fear, not faith, and forces us to focus on works, not grace.

Now, saying that...yes, works is important. But not for the saving of the soul. Our works can never, will never be able to save the soul.

Paul understood this, and in fact, considered works as dung:

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
(Philippians 3:4-11 KJV)

Works is the natural flow from our faith. Again, we do not do works to be saved, we do works because we are saved. There is a difference.

[Rocky]

"That I may know Him." Reminds me of what Jesus said about the one who prophesied, cast out demons, etc, but on judgment day God said, depart from me I never "knew you." I think it was John who wrote, "hereby we know if we know Him, if we keep His commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His site." The Holy Spirit convicts us of all sin, Jesus wrote.

We should keep an eye on our works as a barometer of our behavior. Constant self examination is a prerequisite to a smart Christian walk.

Rather than "grace", I would say "love" is the key word to focus on and love is the fulfillment of the law! Never the less, we are saved by grace.

If there is a valid criticism of the "church" today it is too much emphasis on grace and not enough on love/works, not the other way around.

Both of your replies on here are spot on dolph

[branham1965]

i am thrilled that people are posting.other than that i will

what do folks here think of this gospel of Grace???
who on earth is Joseph Prince???is he right on or bad off???

a fellow who lives by me who is a sinner a drinker etc...and is shacking up with his girlfriend told me its ok.its all Grace only now.


what say ye???? i know what i think.im wondering what others say.is this a abuse of this man's teaching???or does he teach this kind of ...stuff.

When I first came to know the Lord I was very much into his teachings until I bought his book. He is off doctrinally if you line up with what he says and teaches with scripture, and he is extreme WOF, in to the wealth prosperity gospel in its extreme form. And believes that Christians do not not have to confess sin in order to be forgiven because he claims that 1 John was not written to christian but to Gnostics. But if you study 1 John, the letter is to Christians about Gnostic's. His message of grace is not all bad but it is only a half truth and is a bit off. I believe His message of grace conflicts with the book of James and 1 John and even some of Paul's writings. His theology to me after reading his book is kind of a once in grace always in grace hybrid. I also heard him say its not good even to preach on sin so if you like Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince is going to be really appealing aswell. Mater of fact Joseph prince taught at Osteens' church. But I believ he is a christian and I would not brand him as an all out heretic, But his teachings are not represented in the bible.

[cpbeller]

Without grace, God's love is empty ; without love, God's grace is powerless.

I believe the two cannot be separated. We are commanded to walk in love. You cannot do that without being a grace dispenser.

[branham1965]

"the neglect of the truth followed by its rediscovery most always results in its over emphasis."
Arthur Wallis
late Charismatic British Minister and author of the bestseller "God's Chosen Fast".

Galatians 2:15-21.read these verses.
and these Titus 2:11-14. is this being preached by Grace Only proponents today???
the Holy Spirit in all the Word condems contronts and rebukes SIN!!!!!!!!
but these folks are talking another kind of word!!!! there is no need to live free from ALL sin.no need to confess sin if we fall.
if people are given a license to sin that God does not give them...and they are Flesh not dead.they will sin.we cannot help it if we are alive.flesh sins.
but if it is put to death with Jesus....then we walk in the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus not the law of sin and death.
this gospel is very popular.it build "mega churches".it creates millionares.and it it tickles the ears.it appeals to FLESH.
and it bears fruit of a bunch of sinning Christians.who dress like the world ...talk like the world ...act like the world ...drink and smoke and fornicate like the world...speak evil and are busybodies and talebearers...like the world.(i was there for many years)

and claim to have so learned CHRIST!!!!!
but its rubbish.

and the true Pentecostals=whether indies-independents,AG,COG,COGIC or real fire baptized sanctified Holy Ghost Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals in the Church know it to be so.
thank you Lord Jesus.

[cpbeller]

Billy, how is grace being overemphasized? That is where our salvation begins, at grace. Preaching works to an unsaved person is not going to get them saved...we preach grace, the gospel, not the law, or even the keeping of the law, other than to show them that they have sinned and need a saviour. Which again, points to grace.

Even Paul said, "I am what I am by the grace of God".

I do not believe we can over-emphasize God's grace. And if preaching God's grace is giving a liscense to sin? Like I heard Rod Parsley say years ago, "they don't need a liscense to sin, they are sinning good enough on their own".

I mean, the grace of God IS the gospel of Christ. By His grace, he took our place. His love for us is what drove him to die in our place. Why is it wrong to preach that? Why is it considered wrong and being "unbalanced" or "over-emphasizing" grace to preach that?

The Bible is very clear...works will not, never will, never can, and never will be able to save us. Do we, as Christians, need to check out walk? Sure we do, but we are not to rely on our works. Because once we do, then we set up the argument that God owes us salvation. Before you say you are not saying that, think about it. You are saying that we must perform to be saved. If it is a performance by us to be saved, then God owes us salvation. It is no longer by grace (something not earned), but by payment (wages we earned) from God. If that is the case, then we can raise a fist in the face of God and demand admittance into heaven. I say, that is in no way how we are saved. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. When it comes to our salvation, there cannot be any boasting, because it is not by my own goodness that God saved me. It was by grace, and my acceptance on bended knee of that grace that saved me. Nothing I did earned it, nothing I could ever do could ever earn it. It is by grace.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, ant that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice, we are saved by grace, through faith. Not of works. We do the works not to be saved, but because we are saved.