Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Modern "GRACE" gospel
-
cpbeller
- Wield the Sword of the Spirit, Which is the Word of God
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:35 pm
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
wow...all these labels being applied to me because I have the audacity to believe that we are "saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast"?
DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.
-
cpbeller
- Wield the Sword of the Spirit, Which is the Word of God
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:35 pm
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
Here is the question:
Are we saved by grace, or are we saved by works? What did Paul mean when he said, “For by grace are we saved through faith, not of works lest any man should boast”? (see Ephesians 2:8,9) What did James mean when he said, “Faith without works is dead”? (see James 2:20)
I believe that we are, indeed, saved by grace through faith, and not of our own works. And, just as James says, that without the works, our faith is dead and empty. In other words, our faith is evidenced by our works. Without the works, our faith and confession is simply dead, empty, barren and useless.
I believe that is what James was saying when he wrote:
(James 2:14-20)
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe – and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Our works are the evidence of our faith, not the replacement of God's grace. Again, it is by GRACE we are saved, through faith, and not of our good works, so that no man should boast of his salvation. Scripture is very clear about what our good works are like. Isaiah 64:6 tells us exactly what they look like: filthy rags. (Look up what “filthy rags” really does mean, and you will see why your works are simply no good.) If you are counting on your own filthy rags to save you, you will ultimately be found wanting.
Now, works is important, but only in their proper place. Works cannot, and should never be, before God's grace. Once again, they are evidence of our faith, not the replacement of God's grace. Salvation is the free gift, grace is God giving it to us who do not deserve it, we receive that free gift through faith, and our faith is evidenced by our good works.
Are we saved by grace, or are we saved by works? What did Paul mean when he said, “For by grace are we saved through faith, not of works lest any man should boast”? (see Ephesians 2:8,9) What did James mean when he said, “Faith without works is dead”? (see James 2:20)
I believe that we are, indeed, saved by grace through faith, and not of our own works. And, just as James says, that without the works, our faith is dead and empty. In other words, our faith is evidenced by our works. Without the works, our faith and confession is simply dead, empty, barren and useless.
I believe that is what James was saying when he wrote:
(James 2:14-20)
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe – and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Our works are the evidence of our faith, not the replacement of God's grace. Again, it is by GRACE we are saved, through faith, and not of our good works, so that no man should boast of his salvation. Scripture is very clear about what our good works are like. Isaiah 64:6 tells us exactly what they look like: filthy rags. (Look up what “filthy rags” really does mean, and you will see why your works are simply no good.) If you are counting on your own filthy rags to save you, you will ultimately be found wanting.
Now, works is important, but only in their proper place. Works cannot, and should never be, before God's grace. Once again, they are evidence of our faith, not the replacement of God's grace. Salvation is the free gift, grace is God giving it to us who do not deserve it, we receive that free gift through faith, and our faith is evidenced by our good works.
DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.
-
branham1965
- Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
- Posts: 2428
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
Jesus saves us.He paid it all.all to Him we owe.sin had left a crimson stain.He washed it white as snow.amen!!! 
but this does not negate or contradict the Lord's Word to us as to how we appropriate His true salvation!!!:|
being saved by grace through faith is taught by Paul.it must be rightly divided with the whole Word of God.
yes grace is part of the plan of salvation.so is faith.repentance.water baptism by immersion in Jesus' Name.and so is the Holy Ghost baptism speaking in other tongues.and after dying with Him we live with Him because we have Something Holy in us.He keeps us in the love of God and Anoints us to walk in the Spirit.
if we walk in the flesh we are not being one with our BRIDEGROOM.we are adulterers. 1 Cor 6-7 and Romans 6-8.and we will die.
what these grace only people are teaching.its erroneous.i mentioned it before and was ignored as usual.this stuff was being taught in the 1970's.but Christian TV was not anywhere the worldwide Ministry it is today.
in Hebrews 5:8-9 Paul says "thought He were a Son yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered........and being made perfect ,He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all that OBEY HIM.
remember when Israel sinned greviously???
when Moses put the brass serpent on the pole did the people have to look upon it???it is a type of the Lord Jesus on the Cross.cf Num 21:9;John 3:14ff.
when Israel was commanded to encircle Jericho.if they did not OBEY the Lord would the walls have come tumbling down.
but this does not negate or contradict the Lord's Word to us as to how we appropriate His true salvation!!!:|
being saved by grace through faith is taught by Paul.it must be rightly divided with the whole Word of God.
yes grace is part of the plan of salvation.so is faith.repentance.water baptism by immersion in Jesus' Name.and so is the Holy Ghost baptism speaking in other tongues.and after dying with Him we live with Him because we have Something Holy in us.He keeps us in the love of God and Anoints us to walk in the Spirit.
if we walk in the flesh we are not being one with our BRIDEGROOM.we are adulterers. 1 Cor 6-7 and Romans 6-8.and we will die.
what these grace only people are teaching.its erroneous.i mentioned it before and was ignored as usual.this stuff was being taught in the 1970's.but Christian TV was not anywhere the worldwide Ministry it is today.
in Hebrews 5:8-9 Paul says "thought He were a Son yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered........and being made perfect ,He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all that OBEY HIM.
remember when Israel sinned greviously???
when Moses put the brass serpent on the pole did the people have to look upon it???it is a type of the Lord Jesus on the Cross.cf Num 21:9;John 3:14ff.
when Israel was commanded to encircle Jericho.if they did not OBEY the Lord would the walls have come tumbling down.
-
cpbeller
- Wield the Sword of the Spirit, Which is the Word of God
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:35 pm
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
I was going to reply with something else, but deleted it, because some of this...stuff...you are putting up on here is simply wrong.
You say that to be saved, we must be water baptized. What about Paul? Paul said he was not sent to baptize (read 1 Corinthians chapter 1). Interesting...
You say that we must be baptized in the Spirit and SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES. Show me in the Bible where that is so? Show me where one MUST speak in tongues to be saved? Interstingly enough, you cannot, and you will not.
All the obedience stuff you are posting? Yes, we must obey, but that is not what saves us. It is simply the natural work of our faith. God's grace, that which we do not, did not, and never will deserve, is what saved, along with our receiving through faith. For you to mix your works in there and say you were saved because of how good you are is wrong. That is boasting, and Paul CLEARLY wrote that we cannot boast. In fact, if there was anyone who could boast, he said it was him. But what did he say all the things in the flesh were, the works, were? dung. You know what Isaiah 64:6 says? Isaiah says that our righteousness, all of our good things we have done, when placed before God, is as filthy rags. A dirty, used up, tampon. That is what you really think we should be depending on to be saved? A used up tampon? Really?
Through faith, we attain the grace of God to be saved. It is through faith, not of our works. You cannot boast. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is good, and we all should be. Speaking in tongues is good, and we all should. But to say that they are needed to be saved? Really? Really? It amazes me the things you say sometimes. I mean, you just keep adding more and more onto what one needs to do to be saved. When the Bible teaches that all we need to do is believe. What you believe, you will do and speak. But you do not do and speak to be saved, you do and speak because you are saved. Ephesians 2:10 tells me that much. Romans 10:9 & 10 also says that.
There is no other name under heaven given to man that they may be saved....water baptism, spirit baptism, doing good works...none of that saves the soul. Only faith in the Name of Jesus. It is through that faith that we are saved, by grace.
Our works is evidence of our faith, not a replacement for God's grace.
You say that to be saved, we must be water baptized. What about Paul? Paul said he was not sent to baptize (read 1 Corinthians chapter 1). Interesting...
You say that we must be baptized in the Spirit and SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES. Show me in the Bible where that is so? Show me where one MUST speak in tongues to be saved? Interstingly enough, you cannot, and you will not.
All the obedience stuff you are posting? Yes, we must obey, but that is not what saves us. It is simply the natural work of our faith. God's grace, that which we do not, did not, and never will deserve, is what saved, along with our receiving through faith. For you to mix your works in there and say you were saved because of how good you are is wrong. That is boasting, and Paul CLEARLY wrote that we cannot boast. In fact, if there was anyone who could boast, he said it was him. But what did he say all the things in the flesh were, the works, were? dung. You know what Isaiah 64:6 says? Isaiah says that our righteousness, all of our good things we have done, when placed before God, is as filthy rags. A dirty, used up, tampon. That is what you really think we should be depending on to be saved? A used up tampon? Really?
Through faith, we attain the grace of God to be saved. It is through faith, not of our works. You cannot boast. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is good, and we all should be. Speaking in tongues is good, and we all should. But to say that they are needed to be saved? Really? Really? It amazes me the things you say sometimes. I mean, you just keep adding more and more onto what one needs to do to be saved. When the Bible teaches that all we need to do is believe. What you believe, you will do and speak. But you do not do and speak to be saved, you do and speak because you are saved. Ephesians 2:10 tells me that much. Romans 10:9 & 10 also says that.
There is no other name under heaven given to man that they may be saved....water baptism, spirit baptism, doing good works...none of that saves the soul. Only faith in the Name of Jesus. It is through that faith that we are saved, by grace.
Our works is evidence of our faith, not a replacement for God's grace.
DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.
-
Rocky
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
I happen to agree with cpbeller on the speaking in tongues as part of salvation, And branham you are one of my favorite posters on here. But that originated with the early oneness holiness movements. As Well as water baptism required, though I can understand the water baptism thing with the oneness denominations because scripter does allude to that, but not in the way some teach . But on speaking in tongues, there is not one scripter in the bible that states that. Even Paul said though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love it profit me nothing. And cpbeller I know how that teachers curse goes lol. I have a tendency to be a bit wordy myself. One time I taught at church for almost two hours, then noticed I put one person to sleep. I guess what I as teaching on must have been not that exiting to him, and since then have learned not to be so long winded..
-
cpbeller
- Wield the Sword of the Spirit, Which is the Word of God
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:35 pm
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
well, remember Paul taught once for so long a time, that someone died...so perhaps we are in good company 
DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.
-
macca
- After the Holy Ghost Has Come Upon You, Ye Shall Be My Witnesses
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:37 am
- Location: australia
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
branham1965 wrote:what does the Lord's brother James say?????
if the woman with the issue of blood had not "done" something she would never have been healed.Mark 5.
if the lepers did not obey the Lord and "do" something they would have still been lepers.
if the Peter did not step out in faith would he have walked on the water???
if the Apostles had not "done" something and let down their net at Jesus' Word how many fish would they have caught????
Mary told the fellows in John 2:6 whatsoever He saith unto you DO IT.
if they had not what would have happened???wine or no wine????
when Peter adressed the crowd on Pentecost did he tell them what to "do"???Acts 2:38-39.
when Phillip joined himself to the Eunuch and preached Jesus why on earth or heaven did the man say recorded for all eternity here is WATER what doth hinder me to be baptized.did he "do" something???
Jesus said in John 6:28-29 that believing on Him was a work.
when Peter was led to Cornelius Acts 10 did they need to respond???what did he command them to "do".he commanded them to be baptized in Jesus' Name .they received the Holy Ghost Baptism and spoke in other tongues.
Paul was told by the Risen Lord Jesus what he must ...."do".Acts 9 & 22.
believers in Ephesus were told they had to "do" something.they got the Holy Ghost and were baptized in water in Jesus' name.
Paul said to the Romans as many of you as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death.Rom 6.
they were immersed in the Name of Jesus Christ to receive the blessing from the Lord.cf Gal 3:26ff,Eph 2:14ff,Col 2:12ff.
they obeyed from the heart Acts 8:36ff the form of doctrine they received!!!
repent and believe the Gospel.be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and be baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD.AND IT IS GOD'S PLAN.
men may revile it.say it is some thing else.not so.its the Apostle's Doctrine cf.Acts 2:42.and he that heareth God heareth the Apostles.see 1 John 4;6"we are of God.he that knoweth God heareth us.he that is not of God heareth us not.hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
and so if we are not listening to them=because of pride,stubbornness,religiosity,analogies pretending to be Hebrew-Greek scholars
again perhapsbecause of the Catholic Church people have changed
there is a book sold right on here Ministry Helps called the Eternal Church by Dr.Bill Hamon.he talks about some of this.stand wrote:We are saved by grace through faith, evidenced by works. If there is no works, there is no faith, and grace is not received by the person. This is my understanding.
Billy old mate, your zeal is to be commended, BUT, remember that to receive that GRACE we need for salvation requires a work, faith is that work for without our faith in the grace of God it is alone...
It is like "air" air is all around us all the time, we can not see it but we need to do something to get it, breathe!
faith is all the work we need to be saved....
macca
-
macca
- After the Holy Ghost Has Come Upon You, Ye Shall Be My Witnesses
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:37 am
- Location: australia
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
ok, i give up? i don't even know what we are talking about anymore 
Billy old mate, salvation is not water or Spirit baptism, BUT, according to Jesus, water baptism is a command to fullfill all righteoueness, so it is the right thing to do and we should want to follow Jesus into the waters of baptism if for no other reason.....
Spirit baptism is essential for christian service,, the evidence is speaking in other tongues and glorifying God as the book of Acts teaches....
'Tongues are essential in our prayer life before our Father in heaven, as our spirits speak to Him and He speaks to us the secrets of the Spirit for our and the church's benifit....
It also buils up our most holy faith while ever we pray in the Holy Ghost (Spirit) to you newbes, This tongue is not the one spoken of by Paul that is used in the church with interpretation, it is our prayer language with God and is vital for our walk with Jesus........
in my humble belief
macca
Billy old mate, salvation is not water or Spirit baptism, BUT, according to Jesus, water baptism is a command to fullfill all righteoueness, so it is the right thing to do and we should want to follow Jesus into the waters of baptism if for no other reason.....
Spirit baptism is essential for christian service,, the evidence is speaking in other tongues and glorifying God as the book of Acts teaches....
'Tongues are essential in our prayer life before our Father in heaven, as our spirits speak to Him and He speaks to us the secrets of the Spirit for our and the church's benifit....
It also buils up our most holy faith while ever we pray in the Holy Ghost (Spirit) to you newbes, This tongue is not the one spoken of by Paul that is used in the church with interpretation, it is our prayer language with God and is vital for our walk with Jesus........
in my humble belief
macca
-
Ironman
- Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
- Posts: 1275
- Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Re: The Modern "GRACE" gospel
I'm totally agree macca. God has saved me from certain death several times, before and after I was baptized. God also has heard my prayers and healed my children, members of my family and relatives at my prayerfull request, in fact my father inlaw who died several times of heart attacks at age 55, is still alive today ages 84. Doctors say he has the heart of a 20 year old! Every one in the family except my wife have forgotten the fact that my wife and I prayed to God in Jesus Name to heal him?macca wrote:ok, i give up? i don't even know what we are talking about anymore
Billy old mate, salvation is not water or Spirit baptism, BUT, according to Jesus, water baptism is a command to fullfill all righteoueness, so it is the right thing to do and we should want to follow Jesus into the waters of baptism if for no other reason.....
Spirit baptism is essential for christian service,, the evidence is speaking in other tongues and glorifying God as the book of Acts teaches....
'Tongues are essential in our prayer life before our Father in heaven, as our spirits speak to Him and He speaks to us the secrets of the Spirit for our and the church's benifit....
It also buils up our most holy faith while ever we pray in the Holy Ghost (Spirit) to you newbes, This tongue is not the one spoken of by Paul that is used in the church with interpretation, it is our prayer language with God and is vital for our walk with Jesus........
in my humble belief
macca
Yet, mate, I have never ever spoken in tongues, as much as I would like to????????????????????????????????/// I know I am weak, I'm a sinner, I keep falling down, I'm not right with God all the time, thats probably why! No . . . thats why, I know it!
Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
