Dake Bible Discussion BoardPre Adamite World Dillemma...

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Rocky

Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by Rocky »

macca wrote:
Rocky wrote:I plan on teaching dispensations some time in the future to the congregation. Right now I am teaching on the judgment seat of Christ, the judgment of the nations, and the great white thrown judgment, and the difference in them and the purpose of each one. I have noticed that this is is hard to teach without the congregation understanding Gods plan for man from a dispensational perspective. I have also noticed to understand dispensations one must understand Gods plan in bringing mankind back into a sinless perfect state which is the reason from a eschatological stand point, helps to understand why Christ was sent into the world and the purpose of the literal 1,000 reign of Christ . For example Now days, some Pentecostals do not believe in a literal 1,000 reign and believe in replacement theology and are Young Earth Creationist (YEC), so that would even make the pre-adimite world that much more controversial. And do not believe the purpose of the tribulation is for Israel not the church. You do get some dirty looks when teaching on the rapture. Especially pre-trib which I happen to believe, and when you say things like dispensations or pre-adamite world you get some confused looks.I was not raised in church so I assumed that this was already known in the church for years but have come to realize not so much anymore. Now the church I attend is a Pentecostal church. So here is the main question. Should one bring up the pre-adamite world when teaching dispensations? Or avoid it all together so not to cause controversy, and just start with the dispensation of innocence? Any thoughts on this or any thing else I stated?


I found exactly what you have found Rocky.... Leon's advice is the best i have seen on teaching this subject.....the forces against this teaching are many and without it the church is on an uneven base,.,.,

go for it Rocky while you have the chance, please :angel:

macca
Thx for the encouragement mecca..



Rocky

Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by Rocky »

dolph wrote:Rocky, you said above that the Millennium is for Israel. Didn't you mean that the tribulation is (primarily) for Israel? It's my understanding that the saved Jews will be ruling with us Christians under Jesus during the Millennium and evangelizing the world as was God's original plan for them. Many Jews and Gentiles will be saved during this time but the final end of all rebellion won't take place until the very end of the tribulation when Satan will be loosed for a season. Agree?

My question to everyone is, will the Jews saved during the Millennium become part of the Church or will they have earthly bodies forever and remain on the earth???

Scofield's Bible says that the Jews are an earthly people with earthly promises. I haven't read anything from Dr. Dake on this.
Hi dolph, Sorry if I said the Millennium is for Israel that is definitely a mistype. I went back to look and i cant seem to find find were I said that for some reason. I will go look again to make sure and edit it, thanks for the heads up. But, yes the tribulation is primarily for Israel, And to seal up the 144,000 Jews. The 1,000 reign as you well know in short is for a putting an end to all rebellion, and to bring mankind into a sinless perfect state like it was before the fall. And the question regarding the Jews let me try to answer. No one will receive a glorified body during the millennial reign or after, accept for the wicked dead, they recieve thier resurrected bodies after the great white throne judgement. The only way to recieve a glorified body is to either die and be resurrected or be raptured and changed. There is no rapture during the millennium and those who are killed after the millenium are part of the judgment of the wicked dead. So any one living during the millenium, if they were not raptured or killed prier to the millinium will have earthly bodies or be natural man, regardless of race. I do know, and I am sure you do to, the 144,000 Jews will be raptures during the middle of the tribulation and will receive glorified bodies. As far as the Jews that remain if they accept Christ and are marted the they will receive glorified bodies. . Before the the millennium any natural man that has accepted Christ and did not follow the beast and helped isreal Jew or gentile at the judgment of the nations will be allowed to continue in the millenium as natural man for perpetual generations, as I Understand it. And this is just a concise and short explanation.. Rev Bible I am sure can be able to expound on this as well.



Ray

Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by Ray »

Hello Brother Dolph,

Above you wrote: My question to everyone is, will the Jews saved during the Millennium become part of the Church or will they have earthly bodies forever and remain on the earth???

I know there is much seperation put between Jew and Gentile during the Old Covenant (Old Testament).

But why do so many want to bring this teaching into the New Covenant (New Testament) Where so much of what Paul and other New Testament writers write, constantly teaching NO difference between Jew and Gentile.
I know this is done to attempt to make a taught doctrine ring true, But the Scriptures just won't allow it.



Ray

Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by Ray »

Rocky wrote:
Ray wrote:
Rocky wrote:I plan on teaching dispensations some time in the future to the congregation. Right now I am teaching on the judgment seat of Christ, the judgment of the nations, and the great white thrown judgment, and the difference in them and the purpose of each one. I have noticed that this is is hard to teach without the congregation understanding Gods plan for man from a dispensational perspective. I have also noticed to understand dispensations one must understand Gods plan in bringing mankind back into a sinless perfect state which is the reason from a eschatological stand point, helps to understand why Christ was sent into the world and the purpose of the literal 1,000 reign of Christ . For example Now days, some Pentecostals do not believe in a literal 1,000 reign and believe in replacement theology and are Young Earth Creationist (YEC), so that would even make the pre-adimite world that much more controversial. And do not believe the purpose of the tribulation is for Israel not the church. You do get some dirty looks when teaching on the rapture. Especially pre-trib which I happen to believe, and when you say things like dispensations or pre-adamite world you get some confused looks.I was not raised in church so I assumed that this was already known in the church for years but have come to realize not so much anymore. Now the church I attend is a Pentecostal church. So here is the main question. Should one bring up the pre-adamite world when teaching dispensations? Or avoid it all together so not to cause controversy, and just start with the dispensation of innocence? Any thoughts on this or any thing else I stated?
Hello Rocky,
If permitted I would like to ask you, Is the teaching of a "pre-adamite" world a stance on Adam not being the first man ?
Yes.But he was the first man in the recreation the earth. But, before I eleberte and on these statements, if I may ask you some questions, because there is a lot more to it then that. And there is reasons for these questions. Here goes; Have you ever studied on the preadimite world or dispensations. Do you believe in a literal 6 day creation? Do you believe the earth is just a little more then 6,000 years old or man has been on this planet for a little more then 6,000 years as recorded in the bible from Adam until now? Do you believe the earth was created uninhabited and in water and void or empty? Why was the earth covered in water in Genesis 1:2 before the first day of creation? When did Lucifer fall and the angels that threw in thier lot in with him? Please ponder these questions before your reply
Rocky,
I am not in the majority here on this forum, But I would study this subject more from The Scriptures and less from commentary before teaching it.

Cor 15:
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Notice: nowhere does it state IN SCRIPTURE that Adam was the First recreation of man on the earth.

Rather He, Adam was the FIRST MAN.



stand
John
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by stand »

My understanding is Dake still teaches Adam is the first man. There were intelligent beings with spirits like man in the pre-amdamite world, but they were not human being like us.



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frenchie
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by frenchie »

This can help:

Pre-Adamites

1. Two social systems are mentioned here by Peter. One was before the one which is now, and the other after the one that then was (2Pet. 3:6-7).

2. The former social system perished by water and the present one will perish by fire (2Pet. 3:6-7).

3. The former social system was created "in the beginning" and was destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:1-2. The present social system was created in six days since the flood of Gen. 1:2 (Gen. 1:3 -- Gen. 2:25).

4. The flood of Noah did not destroy all the social system on earth between Adam and Noah, for some were preserved in the ark to continue that social system after the flood; but the social system that then was before the present one utterly perished. Not one man, bird, or animal was left alive (2Pet. 3:6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26).

5. No reference in Scripture can be found of a change in the heavens and the earth in Noah's day, as in Adam's day (Gen. 1:3 -- Gen. 2:25). This proves that "the world that then was" had to be before Adam's day because "the heavens and the earth, which are now" came into existence at that time and not at the time of Noah.

6. There was no man, bird, vegetation, or any other life left after the flood of 2Pet. 3:6; Gen. 1:2. They were made again in the six days (Gen. 2:4-9). That they had been here before Adam is clear from Jer. 4:23-26, notes.

7. There have been and will be a total of three social systems on earth:

(1) The pre-Adamite, the one that then was before the present heavens and the earth (2Pet. 3:6)

(2) The Adamite sinful social system, from Adam to the new heavens and the new earth (2Pet. 3:7)

(3) The Adamite sinless social system in the new earth (2Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5; Isa. 66:22-24)

8. Peter taught two distinct ends of two sinful careers of the earth:

(1) The world that then was. The pre-Adamite social system had a sinful career or it would not have perished in the flood of 2Pet. 3:6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek. 28:11-17; Mt. 13:35.

(2) The present Adamite sinful social system, making the present sinful career of the earth. It will come to an end during the Milennium (2Pet. 3:7,10-13; 1Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:7-10).

9. If 2Pet. 3:6 pictured Noah's flood it would be clear, for Peter always mentions Noah or eight persons if he refers to this flood (1Pet. 3:20; 2Pet. 2:5). Others also make it clear when they refer to Noah's flood (Isa. 54:9; Mt. 24:37-38; Lk. 17:26-27; Heb. 11:7).

10. There is no doubt of a universal flood before Adam (2Pet. 3:6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9). Since God never sends a flood unless judgment is necessary, there must have been a social system to be banished before Adam.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.



stand
John
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by stand »

The Bible does say Adam is the first man. There are references pointing to a pre- amdamite society, but I do not see that men exactly like us live in that period. So intelligent beings with spirits lived at that period, but they were not human beings is the best answer. So Adam is still the first man.



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frenchie
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by frenchie »

Hi!
I think that i read somewere in Dr.Dake's writings that the word replenish in hebrew is "male" and that in the original language to replenish something you have to replenish it with the same thing that was therein.
For example,if you have a glass of water,to replenish it you would have to use water after it was emptied.If you use something else like milk for example, you don't replenish it but merely plenish it again.
I can't say where i got this,maybe it will ring a bell to somebody.



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Ironman
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by Ironman »

Macca.

Can you help me mate? Who said this mate?

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." (Genesis 17:1).

Was it The Word; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."John 1:1-2); "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."(John 1:14).

Was this God the Father speaking here?
"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:13-14).

I'm thinking it was the Word, who was with God and was God, and who later became flesh and lived amongst us.

A minister one time, in a sermon I once sat through said, "No one has ever heard God the Fathers voice."

After the sermon I aproached him and respectfully said that I believe people have heard God the Fathers voice, at least one time that I know of. He said No, never happened! I asked him who was speaking at this time?

"And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matt. 3:17). The minister was gob-smacked and oppologised to me. But never to the congregation that I know of?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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macca
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Re: Pre Adamite World Dillemma...

Post by macca »

You are 100 % correct Haz :angel:

Thats why i was astounded by that statment of Ray's :shocked!:

I thought JWS were the ones that preached that lie from hell

macca



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