Dake Bible Discussion BoardTHE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

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dolph
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by dolph » Wed May 16, 2012 12:16 am

Scottae316 (where'd you get that handle?) The Jews in Israel and around the world today are mostly secular which makes their long journey to Israel the past 2,000 years that much more AMAZING!!!!! They will all be saved after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, Rom. 11:25,26, so everything is right on schedule, the greatest miracle since the crucifixion.

If I was a pastor I would start every sermon with a reference to this miracle and to top it off it was clearly prophesied by Isaiah 11:11, 12:6. It's almost a guarantee that the Bible is true, yet it flies over most peoples' heads.

Ed, the name Israel is used repeatably in the Bible to include both houses, Israel and Judah. See GPFM debunking British Israel.



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Justaned
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by Justaned » Wed May 16, 2012 12:14 pm

dolph wrote:Scottae316 (where'd you get that handle?) The Jews in Israel and around the world today are mostly secular which makes their long journey to Israel the past 2,000 years that much more AMAZING!!!!! They will all be saved after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, Rom. 11:25,26, so everything is right on schedule, the greatest miracle since the crucifixion.

If I was a pastor I would start every sermon with a reference to this miracle and to top it off it was clearly prophesied by Isaiah 11:11, 12:6. It's almost a guarantee that the Bible is true, yet it flies over most peoples' heads.

Ed, the name Israel is used repeatably in the Bible to include both houses, Israel and Judah. See GPFM debunking British Israel.

That is absolutely not true after the division of Israel into the northern Kingdom known as Israel and the Southern Kingdom known as Judea the prophet specifically addressed their prophecy to one or the other and at times to both. This has nothing to do with the British so I don't know why you would mention it here. The division of the nation of Israel occurred after the reign of Solomon when his two sons both wanted to rule. It exists today.

Further because of the way the Assyrians occupied a land it is believed that most of the Northern Jews, the Children of Israel living in the northern Kingdom known as Israel have lost the knowledge that they were Children of Israel. That is why they are called the Lost Tribes.

Assyria then back filled the territory with people from other captured lands. They then cried out to the Assyrian king that if they were to live in the land they needed to become Jewish so the king sent them Jewish priest not to convert them but to teach them. Their religion became a blend of paganism and Judaism. They are the Samaritans.
2 Kings 17:24-34 (KJV)
24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.
26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.
27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.
28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.
29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
30 And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,
31 And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.
32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.
33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.
34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;



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Justaned
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by Justaned » Wed May 16, 2012 2:58 pm

dolph wrote:That's because Preterism is just another form of Replacement Theology that believes God finished dealing with the Jews in 70 A.D., that the 6 prophetic promises of Gabriel's 70 Weeks have been fulfilled.
Is that true is Perterism just another form of Replacement theology.
Replacement theology basically believes any where you see Israel, Children of Israel, Hebrew you can plug in the Christian Church instead.

Therefore all the promises made to Israel are now the Churches.

But is that what Preterist really believe? I'm not a Preterist so I can speak for them but I can offer this opinion. I see the Preterist saying no God isn't done with the Jew, He is done with the Jew that rejected Christ. We are adopted into the lineage of Abraham not as first covenant Jews but rather as Second Covenant Jew.

I'm not one that reads the Old Testament and tries to appropiate promises made exclusively to the Jew and claim them as mine. I do claim promises made specificially to Abraham and his lineage as far as they eventually accepted Christ. But the promises made to general Israel are not for me today.

Is God done with Israel today? Yes I believe God is.
Do I think God is done with Abraham and his children? (Children being defined as having had accepted Christ.) No I don't

Do I see the holders of the land of Israel in one accord saying crucify Jesus the Son of the living God and let His blood be on us and our children's heads? Yes I do.

What is interesting is so many on this forum believe Adam and Eve gave Satan the whole world by their sin. Yet you don't feel Israel lost their promised blessings when they said Crucify HIm and Let His Blood be on Our Heads and the Heads of our children.



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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by NineCrows » Wed May 16, 2012 6:43 pm

macca wrote:
Ray wrote:
branham1965 wrote:you know your stuff brother.

that Amillenial stuff is plain goofy +goofy .

thanks for being a pitbull. love you bro.
Yea,
And teaching it will be more than 2000 years to fulfill a 490 year Prophecy is truly Brilliant !!!!


So what do you do with Isa. 61:1-2a and the gap to 2b-11;..
Jesus only quoted part of the prophecy because the day of vengeance is still to come !!
or do you have some theory to explain it away?
macca
Brother Macca,
You are absolutely correct; from the perspective of Jesus at the time that He read that prophecy the days of vengeance were still to come. But remember that since the prophecy is linked in Isaiah, the natural way to read it would be as a directly susbsequent event (just as with Daniel's 70 week prophecy). In other words, your point doesn't really make your case. The prophecy could have been fulfilled 40 years after Jesus read it (as I believe-and there is plenty of Scriptural as well as historical evidence to back up that conviction) and it would still be unfulfilled at the time that He read it. Also, inserting gaps of thousands of years into Bible prophecies with no Scriptural justification for doing so is dangerous. It can lead us down all kinds of odd trails...



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dolph
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by dolph » Wed May 16, 2012 7:52 pm

Ed, God will save Israel not because she has been righteous but for His name sake and for the fathers' sake.

If you believe the Jews of today and their return to Israel is of no spiritual consequence I am sorely disappointed in the person I have been debating. You're not the person I thought you were.



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Justaned
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by Justaned » Wed May 16, 2012 10:00 pm

dolph wrote:Ed, God will save Israel not because she has been righteous but for His name sake and for the fathers' sake.

If you believe the Jews of today and their return to Israel is of no spiritual consequence I am sorely disappointed in the person I have been debating. You're not the person I thought you were.
Again Dolph you present no evidence of rebuttal you just make personal remarks about me. Forget me, forget who you thought I was deal with the subject at hand. Israel is a divided nation. It has been ever since the Solomon and many Jews are lost today after the Assyrians carried off the Northern Tribes. You gave referrences that obviously aren't talking of the Israel of today buy rather of the Israel that prophet was talking about at that time. I asked you which Israel was it and you evidently don't know. So instead of saying I don't know you try to tear down what I said by attacking me personally.



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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed May 16, 2012 10:35 pm

So, is the question at hand whether or not there are any Lost Tribes of Israel?


SPIRITBLADE DISCIPLE
— Luke 12:4-5 King James Version —
"And I say unto you My friends, be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into Hell; yea, I say unto you, fear Him."

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dolph
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by dolph » Wed May 16, 2012 11:39 pm

Ed, it's too bad you can't take a joke. Seriously, I can't debate someone who thinks Israel is of no spiritual consequence. This makes your opinions of less importance to me. If you are an anti-dakite why not wear the title proudly?



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Justaned
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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by Justaned » Thu May 17, 2012 11:16 am

dolph wrote:Ed, it's too bad you can't take a joke. Seriously, I can't debate someone who thinks Israel is of no spiritual consequence. This makes your opinions of less importance to me. If you are an anti-dakite why not wear the title proudly?
Once again you try to place a label on me, why is that? Do I do that to you? Have I even insulted you? If I have please let me know and I will immediately apologize to you because that was not my intent.

I did not come here to debate.

My purpose is to discuss an issue and examine the pros and cons on both sides of the issue.

My main interest is learning what scripture people use as a foundation for there belief in certain things. Your foundation seems less scriptural and more experiential. The nation of Israel exists today so that is what you base you eschatology on.

However you also ignore the fact that events from the beginning of the 70 weeks of Daniels prophecy to the conclusion of it fit exactly into what Daniel prophesied.

Then instead of saying well perhaps I should not use Daniel’s 70 weeks for a timeline to an understanding of the Book of Revelations you turn right around and use it as if it was not yet fulfilled.

Why not investigate your view of Eschatology and see if you can using scripture really prove them with solid scriptural proof.

For instance you gave quotes of prophets as proof of Israel existence today when in fact the prophet you quoted was talking about Israel(northern tribe) coming back from bondage to Assyria. In another quote the prophet was talking of Israel in captivity to Babylon.

What you fail to note is few of the Old Testament prophets talking of restoration of Israel were ever talking of all of Children of Israel but rather the particular kingdom north or south they were concerned with. And the ones that did talk of restoration of all of Israel were talking of the reuniting of Israel that they had hoped for but will probably never see. And so they haven’t.



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Re: THE PRETERIST FAD IS OVER

Post by macca » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:50 am

Justaned wrote:
dolph wrote:Ed, it's too bad you can't take a joke. Seriously, I can't debate someone who thinks Israel is of no spiritual consequence. This makes your opinions of less importance to me. If you are an anti-dakite why not wear the title proudly?
Once again you try to place a label on me, why is that? Do I do that to you? Have I even insulted you? If I have please let me know and I will immediately apologize to you because that was not my intent.

I did not come here to debate.

My purpose is to discuss an issue and examine the pros and cons on both sides of the issue.

My main interest is learning what scripture people use as a foundation for there belief in certain things. Your foundation seems less scriptural and more experiential. The nation of Israel exists today so that is what you base you eschatology on.

However you also ignore the fact that events from the beginning of the 70 weeks of Daniels prophecy to the conclusion of it fit exactly into what Daniel prophesied.

Then instead of saying well perhaps I should not use Daniel’s 70 weeks for a timeline to an understanding of the Book of Revelations you turn right around and use it as if it was not yet fulfilled.

Why not investigate your view of Eschatology and see if you can using scripture really prove them with solid scriptural proof.

For instance you gave quotes of prophets as proof of Israel existence today when in fact the prophet you quoted was talking about Israel(northern tribe) coming back from bondage to Assyria. In another quote the prophet was talking of Israel in captivity to Babylon.

What you fail to note is few of the Old Testament prophets talking of restoration of Israel were ever talking of all of Children of Israel but rather the particular kingdom north or south they were concerned with. And the ones that did talk of restoration of all of Israel were talking of the reuniting of Israel that they had hoped for but will probably never see. And so they haven’t.[/quote



I miss Ed sometimes...]


For ALL the promises of God in Him are YES, and in Him AMEN, unto the glory of God by us.

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