Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ GOD IS NOT DONE WITH ISRAEL

[branham1965]

Dolph
doesnt Romans chapter 11 prove that Israel is still in the plan of the Lord???im asking sincerely.you know this stuff very well.i hope you will respond.

[Ray]

"For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king and without a prince and without a sacrifice. Afterward shall the children of Israel return and seek the Lord their God and David their king and shall fear the Lord and His goodness IN THE LATTER DAYS", Hosea 3:4-5.

Israels greatest days are still ahead, despite the rumblings of the Peterists.

Dolph,
Hosea 3:4-5 speaks of Israels seperation and return to their land during the years of Babylonian captivity.

[Justaned]

dolph
I know you like Hosea 3:4-5 as proving something but read it. Does it say anything about Jesus? Messiah? Anything that would make us think it is talking of a time after the first coming of Christ?

I know you will cite the use of the term latter days. But what did the term latter day mean to a Jew? Did it mean a second coming? No remember the Jesus rejected Jeses because he did not appear as the conqueoring hero that would save them from this world's injustice.

Most scholars contribute latter times to the time when Israel would return from exile. You do know that Israel split into two Israel being the Northern part and called Israel and the southern part that still worshipped God in Jerusalem was called Judea. Israel or the northern kingdom left God and went into exile under the Assyrians before the Jews in Judea went into exile to Babylonia and later under the Romans. The hoped for return to God and the reuniting of Israel was known as latter time. However that would require a supernatural event as most of those Jews no longer know they are Jews. They are referred to as the lost tribes.

So I don't see Hosea as proof of anything as far as God dealing with the Jews in the End times.

[Ray]

(Rom 11:25-26 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This verse seems to be telling us that the entire nation of Israel will be saved. Some believe it is a restoration to the glory she once had during the reigns of David and Solomon. The answer to this verse lies in verse 25 where we read, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." The word "Gentile" may also be translated "ethnic or nation." This means that before Israel can be saved a multitude of other races must be included in GOD'S Salvation plan. Once GOD has saved the last person He plans to save, then Israel will be completed. Do you remember who the Israel of GOD is? It is the entire body of believers. In verse 26 GOD has the completion of HIS salvation program. The Israel of GOD is complete with all those in the body of Christ. No single nation is chosen for mass salvation because we read in Acts 10:34 that God is not a respecter of persons. Only those who are saved in JESUS CHRIST before the last day are included in this "all Israel."

[branham1965]

RAY
what is your background???im asking sincerely.no sneaky motives.
ill bet im ignored. +pieface

(Rom 11:25-26 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This verse seems to be telling us that the entire nation of Israel will be saved. Some believe it is a restoration to the glory she once had during the reigns of David and Solomon. The answer to this verse lies in verse 25 where we read, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." The word "Gentile" may also be translated "ethnic or nation." This means that before Israel can be saved a multitude of other races must be included in GOD'S Salvation plan. Once GOD has saved the last person He plans to save, then Israel will be completed. Do you remember who the Israel of GOD is? It is the entire body of believers. In verse 26 GOD has the completion of HIS salvation program. The Israel of GOD is complete with all those in the body of Christ. No single nation is chosen for mass salvation because we read in Acts 10:34 that God is not a respecter of persons. Only those who are saved in JESUS CHRIST before the last day are included in this "all Israel."

[Ray]

RAY
what is your background???im asking sincerely.no sneaky motives.
ill bet im ignored. +pieface

(Rom 11:25-26 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This verse seems to be telling us that the entire nation of Israel will be saved. Some believe it is a restoration to the glory she once had during the reigns of David and Solomon. The answer to this verse lies in verse 25 where we read, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." The word "Gentile" may also be translated "ethnic or nation." This means that before Israel can be saved a multitude of other races must be included in GOD'S Salvation plan. Once GOD has saved the last person He plans to save, then Israel will be completed. Do you remember who the Israel of GOD is? It is the entire body of believers. In verse 26 GOD has the completion of HIS salvation program. The Israel of GOD is complete with all those in the body of Christ. No single nation is chosen for mass salvation because we read in Acts 10:34 that God is not a respecter of persons. Only those who are saved in JESUS CHRIST before the last day are included in this "all Israel."

Branham,
I'm not sure I understand your Question.

[Justaned]

For someone to believe Romans 11:25-26 is saying ALL of Israel then they would have to believe that every Jew that died between the time of Jesus and now will also be saved. Or do you believe it is only talking of ALL the Jews alive as some point in time. What point in time is that where every living Jew will be saved? Does that mean only the Jews living in the land now called Israel or does it mean every Jew every where in the world? What about the people that are really Jews but don't even know they are?

I mean you are standing on the Romans 11:25.26 as proof of many things but you really haven't thought through all those things. If every Jew is saved will there not be one Jew that fights on the side of the antichrist?
That every Jew will refuse the mark of the beast?

Don't you see the verse you tying your horse onto produces more problems in your theology that it answers.

[Ray]

For someone to believe Romans 11:25-26 is saying ALL of Israel then they would have to believe that every Jew that died between the time of Jesus and now will also be saved. Or do you believe it is only talking of ALL the Jews alive as some point in time. What point in time is that where every living Jew will be saved? Does that mean only the Jews living in the land now called Israel or does it mean every Jew every where in the world? What about the people that are really Jews but don't even know they are?

I mean you are standing on the Romans 11:25.26 as proof of many things but you really haven't thought through all those things. If every Jew is saved will there not be one Jew that fights on the side of the antichrist?
That every Jew will refuse the mark of the beast?

Don't you see the verse you tying your horse onto produces more problems in your theology that it answers.

Ed,
Great points you bring out, to add to your points what % of Jewish bloodline do you have to carry to fit into this All Isreal. Ed as Paul compares those who are saved to this Olive Tree (Rom 11) being made up of Jew and Gentile, and all the Scriptures in the New Testament pointing to the Spiritual Israel made up of Jew and Gentile it is Clear who the Israel Paul is speaking of when he said "and so all Israel shall be saved". Spiritual Israel.

[branham1965]

im just wondering what your Church Denomination is.i mean no offence ...

RAY
what is your background???im asking sincerely.no sneaky motives.
ill bet im ignored. +pieface

(Rom 11:25-26 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This verse seems to be telling us that the entire nation of Israel will be saved. Some believe it is a restoration to the glory she once had during the reigns of David and Solomon. The answer to this verse lies in verse 25 where we read, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." The word "Gentile" may also be translated "ethnic or nation." This means that before Israel can be saved a multitude of other races must be included in GOD'S Salvation plan. Once GOD has saved the last person He plans to save, then Israel will be completed. Do you remember who the Israel of GOD is? It is the entire body of believers. In verse 26 GOD has the completion of HIS salvation program. The Israel of GOD is complete with all those in the body of Christ. No single nation is chosen for mass salvation because we read in Acts 10:34 that God is not a respecter of persons. Only those who are saved in JESUS CHRIST before the last day are included in this "all Israel."

Branham,
I'm not sure I understand your Question.

[Justaned]

Contrary Twins, it's absolutely clear that "all" Israel of Rom.11:26 is natural Israel, those who rejected Christ. Paul laments they haven't accepted Christ, "I say then hath God cast away His people?", v.1.

You guys split hairs over the minor arguments and miss the 4,000 pound elephant in the room. THE JEWS ARE BACK IN ISRAEL. So all the more controversial facts fall into place. Just like when Christ came the first time, it settled dozens of controversial scriptures in the old testament.

The Jews that killed Christ and the prophets were dispersed to the 4 corners of the world, cursed by God for bad behavior. These same antichrist Jews, Greenspan, Kissinger, Murdock, Lenin, Trotsky, Marx, Geitner, Katheryn Graham, Rothchilds will be saved for the fathers' (patriarchs') sake and for His name sake. Does anybody see the connection??????????? And they're the ones that God designed the Tribulation for, not the Church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The day of vengeance of our God, Isa.61:2, the part Jesus didn't read to the Jews at His first advent because it wasn't going to happen then.

To have an end time paradigm that works one must accept the "given" facts. You guys refuse to accept the corner stone of end time prophesy. It's like trying to build a car without an engine, you're defeated before you start.

You guys split hairs over the minor arguments and miss the 4,000 pound elephant in the room. THE JEWS ARE BACK IN ISRAEL. So all the more controversial facts fall into place. Just like when Christ came the first time, it settled dozens of controversial scriptures in the old testament.

Dolph
You are trying to use a physical reality as proof of spiritual position.

Who is that Israel that Paul is talking about in Romans 11. Is it all the children of Israel? Is it the children of Israel of the Northern Kingdom? Is it the children of Israel of the Southern Kingdom?

Or is it everyone that will be grafted into the lineage of Abraham through their belief in Jesus Christ?

Now who occupies the nation of Israel today?

Is it a people with a heart after God?

Or is it people that if given a real choice for the most part would be somewhere else? Do the people living in Israel today seek a relationship with God? Or do they have no real view of God and simply were looking for a place to live after they were forced from where they were living?

In other words did they return to Israel seeking God or did they return simply because that was their only choice?

Most importantly do those living in Israel identify themselves as the Children of Israel who are following father Abraham’s love of the living God? Or do they identify themselves as Jews displaced from Europe and forced to live there?