Dake Bible Discussion Boardonce saved always saved

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Reuben
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Reuben »

You can't get saved more than once...


Romans 11:20-23 (KJV)
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Things we learn from the above Scriptures:
1. It is possible for brethren or Christians to err from the truth and become unconverted (v. 19; note, Lk. 22:32).

2. An erring Christian can be converted again (vv. 19-20; note, Lk. 22:32).

3. An erring Christian becomes a sinner again, if he sins (v. 20; Rom. 6:14-23).

4. An erring Christian incurs the death penalty again when he sins (v. 20; Ezek. 18:24; Rom. 8:12-13; Gal. 5:19-21).

5. If the erring Christian is saved from his error, his soul will be saved again from death (v. 20; 1Jn. 1:9; 1Jn. 5:16; Rev. 2:5).

6. If he repents and is saved again from death, his sins will be forgiven and hidden (v. 20; 1Jn. 1:9; Rev. 2:5).

7. If he does not repent, he will be lost and will have to pay the penalty for sin (v. 20; Rom. 6:14-23; 8:12-13; 2Tim. 2:12; Ezek. 18:24; Heb. 6:4-6, notes; 10:26-29, notes; 2Pet. 2:20-21).
Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.



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Ironman
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Ironman »

Jay wrote:
feltman wrote:does anyone have anything on this ?
Yes, when people are saved, they are always saved, UNLESS they meet the qualifications of Heb 6 and decide to walk away from their salvation. You can't get saved more than once but it is definitely possible for some to give up their salvation.

The Bible is clear that some will BARELY make it into Heaven, even smelling like the smoke of hell. I'm sure there will be many that never were saved to begin with too like some "eternal security" believers teach.

So, REALLY, "Once Saved Always Saved" or "Eternal Security" are true IF you continue your walk with the Lord. God never changes His mind but the people mentioned in Heb 6 sure can. Those are the people that have committed the unpardonable sin and there is no more sacrifice for their sin. On the other hand, you can say that "Once Saved Always Saved" or "Eternal Security" are not true because there are scriptures that prove some can and will, lose their salvation.

If you want to know what I believe, you can read it on my website: http://www.jaymc.com/FOF/secure.htm

JayMc
Hi Jay.
Can I use your words here? I'm arguing this on another board. Haz.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Ironman »

Jay wrote:
feltman wrote:does anyone have anything on this ?
Yes, when people are saved, they are always saved, UNLESS they meet the qualifications of Heb 6 and decide to walk away from their salvation. You can't get saved more than once but it is definitely possible for some to give up their salvation.

The Bible is clear that some will BARELY make it into Heaven, even smelling like the smoke of hell. I'm sure there will be many that never were saved to begin with too like some "eternal security" believers teach.

So, REALLY, "Once Saved Always Saved" or "Eternal Security" are true IF you continue your walk with the Lord. God never changes His mind but the people mentioned in Heb 6 sure can. Those are the people that have committed the unpardonable sin and there is no more sacrifice for their sin. On the other hand, you can say that "Once Saved Always Saved" or "Eternal Security" are not true because there are scriptures that prove some can and will, lose their salvation.

If you want to know what I believe, you can read it on my website: http://www.jaymc.com/FOF/secure.htm

JayMc
Jay, here's what a minister on another board said to what you wrote. This guy actually believes once saved eternally saved no matter what. Seriously, he believes once one is saved NOTHING can cause one to loose on's salvation. ie, according to him, I can now go and do whatever I like and nothing will prevent me from going to Heaven???

He replied to Hebrews,

You quote these verses to prove a person can lose their salvation and by the way, it says it is impossible to renew them to repentance.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Then you make this statement that contradicts your use of the previous verses that say it is impossible to get saved again.
2. An erring Christian can be converted again (vv. 19-20; note, Lk. 22:32).
Your statements and your beliefs show your confusion. Either a person can lose their salvation and never have another chance to be saved according to Hebrews or your understanding of these verses is wrong.

If you are a Christian, you place burdens on others and demonstrate a confused way of thinking. My God is nor the author of confusion yet you are the example of confusion.
Here is an example of an oxymoron: You said:
"Yes, when people are saved, they are always saved, UNLESS they meet the qualifications of Hebrews 6:1-20 and decide to walk away from their salvation. You can't get saved more than once but it is definitely possible for some to give up their salvation."


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Jay
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Jay »

Ironman wrote: Here is an example of an oxymoron: You said:
"Yes, when people are saved, they are always saved, UNLESS they meet the qualifications of Hebrews 6:1-20 and decide to walk away from their salvation. You can't get saved more than once but it is definitely possible for some to give up their salvation."
I guess I should explain myself a little more clearly. What I am saying is that I believe the scriptures that the "once saved always saved" people use such as John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

The Word of God is very clear to me that once a person is saved, Jesus will not cast that person out, ever. BUT, for those who meet the qualifications of Heb. 6, even though Christ will not cast them out, they can walk away from their salvation. They would do this knowing full well what they were doing and just as they got saved by repenting, believing and confessing with their mouth, of their own free will being saved, they would turn and walk away and then they, by their own free will, would no longer confess Christ as their Lord and Savior, they would no longer believe on Him and then there would no longer be a sacrifice for their sin. They would basically be saying to God, "I don't want anymore of you, I don't want salvation, I don't want the work of the Holy Spirit in my life." It makes me shudder to think that anyone would ever do this. This is what I believe blaspheming the Holy Spirit is, completely rejecting God and Christ's sacrifice and the work the Holy Spirit has done in your life once you have tasted the Heavenly gift, etc. Of course, if you are a Five Point Calvinist, you could never believe this.

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Jay
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Jay »

Ironman wrote:
If you want to know what I believe, you can read it on my website: http://www.jaymc.com/FOF/secure.htm

JayMc
Hi Jay.
Can I use your words here? I'm arguing this on another board. Haz.[/quote]

Absolutely Haz.


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Jay
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Jay »

branham1965 wrote:
Agabus wrote:That's definitely different that Dr. Dake's take on it, JayMc.

Is that the Rhema take on Eternal Security?
Dad Hagins casette or cd now the sin unto death i think gives his views on this hot potato.

some say if a Christian sins he loses fellowship not relationship.

i think Reverend Dake taught if one sins he loses it all both relationship and fellowship are broken.thus one can be born again many many many many many ......times.
Dad Hagin did NOT believe that.
That is the idea I get from Dake also. As much as I love Dake and his teaching, as I said, that is one of the very few things I disagree with him on. We will probably never find anyone that we agree completely with. Therefore I think it is absolutely a necessity that we understand and adhere to the old saying,

"In the Essentials, UNITY - In the NonEssentials, LIBERTY"

I don't believe salvation is like jumping a rope, one second we are on one side of the rope and the next second, we are on the other side. If that were the case all of us would be in danger of hell fire probably many, many times a day.

We all have a bad thought, or say something out of anger or commit some kind of stupid sin every day, several times. If you don't, then you are a much better Christian than me.

From what I read, Paul said and taught that salvation is by "Faith Alone" as Luther discovered. If I have to depend upon my works, I am doomed before I ever start. Does that mean I just flippantly sin, like Paul said? And like Paul said, I will say, "NO! By no means." Grace is not a license to live in sin but we are all at different stages in our lives and God's GRACE is what allows us to be saved because His unending mercy that I will never fully understand until I am in His presence.

We all know that when we get saved, although our spirit becomes a new creature and alive to God, our flesh is not always changed immediately. Sanctification is a process and we will all die with some kind of unconfessed sin in our lives. We HAVE to have God's GRACE or NONE of us will ever make it into His presence. This is a great topic to discuss though!

Once, several years ago, I was watching the evening news. A story came on about a man that had molested and murdered a young child. I asked God, "Why do you allow people like that live?" God immediately spoke back to me and said, "The same mercy and grace that keeps him alive, keeps you alive." I will never forget that lesson in humility and in just how great God's mercy and grace are.

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Reuben
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Reuben »

James believed a man could backslide and be in need of conversion again. It does not say that the only people losing it are the Heb. 6 folks. James speaks about someone erring from the truth and he is in need of conversion again.

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

God will not reject a person as long as they remain in obedience to the Word. However, when a person's heart grows cold and operates in sinful activity again, the fruit is evidence of who they are now serving. You can't serve two masters.



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Jay
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Jay »

dolph wrote:We are saved by grace. Works is the evidence of that salvation.

Les Feldick, who I usually enjoy listening to on World Harvest Television, drives me nuts with his mantra, "faith plus nothing" for salvation. It suggests that keeping the commandments is foolishness even though there are over 1,000 commandments in the New Testament. When you are saved the law is written on your heart and you are led by the Spirit of God which will produce good works. In fact, I think developing Christ-like character by the re-newing of your mind is one of the main purposes of a Christian's walk, preparing himself for ruling and reigning with Christ in eternity. "Faith plus nothing" misleads new Christians that repentance, a change in direction, is not required and leads to the liberal, easy-believism churchianity we see so much of today. Reducing salvation down to a couple of words makes a mockery of the Bible and's a ticket to Hell.
Dolph, I ran across Les Feldick three or four years ago. Some of his teaching is pretty good but when I heard him say apostles and prophets don't exist anymore, it kind of turned me off, especially since my call is that of a prophet. I know I can't throw the baby out with the bathwater though. He does teach some good things. I do agree with you though. I think sanctification, renewing our minds, is a key element to Christianity.


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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macca
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by macca »

Jay, What do you think of this statement:
Ministering to the body of Christ should be done in holiness and the fear of the Lord, as though Jesus is standing with you.
There should be no unconfessed sin in your life so that the Spirit of God has free access to the people through you.

We should not have to rely on past experiences and fake anointings with tricks and slight of hand and tongue..But full faith in Jesus to do what He wants to do through us.
macca



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Jay
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Re: once saved always saved

Post by Jay »

macca wrote:Jay, What do you think of this statement:
Ministering to the body of Christ should be done in holiness and the fear of the Lord, as though Jesus is standing with you.
There should be no unconfessed sin in your life so that the Spirit of God has free access to the people through you.

We should not have to rely on past experiences and fake anointings with tricks and slight of hand and tongue..But full faith in Jesus to do what He wants to do through us.
macca
Absolutely I agree Macca. When the Lord called me to the ministry and revealed my calling to me, among other scriptures, He gave me 1 Timothy 4:16 Pay close attention to your life and your teaching. Persevere in these things, because if you do so, you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

I take the ministry very seriously. Usually when I speak of unconfessed sin, I am referring to things we do or haven't done that we aren't even aware of. But when we have unconfessed sin in our lives that we are fully aware of, it will definitely hinder the power of the Holy Spirit through us. I think that is because we don't have the confidence that we should have, kind of like Adam and Eve when they realized they were naked. They did not have the confidence they once had and wanted to hide from God.

The book, "All Things are Possible" by Harrell, that I've spoken of before on these forums, shows how many of the ministers that operated in the great healing revival from the mid 1940's to the mid 1950's began to resort to the kind of deception you speak of. Unfortunately, many of them died premature deaths and many of them fell into sin. Look at how many "faith healers" do the same thing today. I've received all kinds of strange thing in the mail, a small package of cement that I should send back to help build a building for God, a prayer mat (a cheap sheet of paper), holy anointing water, holy anointing oil and much more. Of course with all of these I was supposed to send my offering in!

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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