Dake Bible Discussion BoardBaptism in the Holy Spirit

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olindquist
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Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby olindquist » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:01 pm

I've been reading about the baptism in the Holy Spirit in God's Plan for Man and he mentioned the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized in the Holy Spirit. He used the analogy of a glass being filled with water and taking that glass and putting it into another container that is filled where the glass is now immersed. He also mentioned that the baptism in the Holy Spirit can be lost and a believer needs to continue to be filled with the Holy Spirit and in some occasions be re-baptized. I have a few questions in regards to the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. It is my understanding that for a believer there are two types 1) A believer's personal prayer language and 2) One of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit used in conjunction with the Interpretation.

My questions are:
1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit? and if the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for both types and the baptism is being totally immersed in the Holy Spirit, why then(which is my next question)

2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?



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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby Ironman » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:06 am

Any gifts of the Holy Spirit, once given are a permanent anointing. Solomon said of his gift of wisdom after he had backslidden, "Also my wisdom it remained with me."

Eccl 2:9, So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby bibleman » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:54 am

olindquist wrote:My questions are:
1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit? and if the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for both types and the baptism is being totally immersed in the Holy Spirit, why then(which is my next question)

2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?


As to your first question... 1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

No - you can't have the GIFT without the GIVER. The gifts of the Spirit or "of the Spirit" - so no the only way to receive the gifts is to receive the Spirit - of whose gifts they are Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (KJV)

And to your second question... 2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?

If a person is in known "death penalty sins" then of course they are no longer of God - but of the devil. And of course then the Spirit will no longer give them the unction to speak in tongues or any of the other Spiritual gifts. But a person may recall what he has said before and then say that again (in tongues)... But there is no unction to it - it is not Spirit inspired. I can speak a few words in Spanish, because I learned it not because it is Spirit inspired.

Tongues is a very misused gift sometimes that is why we are told to judge the prophetic uterance. 1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. (KJV)


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby olindquist » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:41 am

bibleman wrote:
olindquist wrote:My questions are:
1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit? and if the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for both types and the baptism is being totally immersed in the Holy Spirit, why then(which is my next question)

2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?


As to your first question... 1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

No - you can't have the GIFT without the GIVER. The gifts of the Spirit or "of the Spirit" - so no the only way to receive the gifts is to receive the Spirit - of whose gifts they are Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (KJV)

And to your second question... 2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?

If a person is in known "death penalty sins" then of course they are no longer of God - but of the devil. And of course then the Spirit will no longer give them the unction to speak in tongues or any of the other Spiritual gifts. But a person may recall what he has said before and then say that again (in tongues)... But there is no unction to it - it is not Spirit inspired. I can speak a few words in Spanish, because I learned it not because it is Spirit inspired.

Tongues is a very misused gift sometimes that is why we are told to judge the prophetic uterance. 1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. (KJV)


Thank you Bibleman. That is extremely helpful!!



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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:31 pm

olindquist wrote:1) Can a person have either of the 2 types of tongues with out being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I believe so. To me it seems obvious that most persons who speak with either type of tongues are not Spirit baptized (as defined by Dake).

olindquist wrote:and if the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for both types and the baptism is being totally immersed in the Holy Spirit, why then(which is my next question)

I do not believe the Spirit Baptism is necessary for either type.


olindquist wrote:2) Do some people whom I've observed who are in known sin still have the ability to speak in tongues? Does it become part of their intellect and not really Spirit led prayer?

Even people of non-Christian religions speak with tongues (such as some Hindus). Certainly, it's not always of the Holy Ghost.



olindquist
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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby olindquist » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:43 pm

Can a person speak in tongues without being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Bibleman wrote:
No - you can't have the GIFT without the GIVER. The gifts of the Spirit or "of the Spirit" - so no the only way to receive the gifts is to receive the Spirit - of whose gifts they are Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (KJV)

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
I believe so. To me it seems obvious that most persons who speak with either type of tongues are not Spirit baptized (as defined by Dake).
Even people of non-Christian religions speak with tongues (such as some Hindus). Certainly, it's not always of the Holy Ghost.

From these responses and my understanding up to this point it seems there are 3 different types of people which either seem to be or really are being Spirit led in their speaking in tongues. (I"m referring to personal prayer language and not one of the 9 gifts).

1) A non-christian - which is not really from the unction of the Holy Spirit but is rather mental or demonic.
2) A Spirit filled christian who is not baptized in the Holy Spirit. According to Dake there is a difference.
3) A christian who is truly baptized in the Holy Spirit. ( A christian who is not only filled (all christians) but who is totally immersed in the Holy Spirit by constant fellowship and obedience to Him)



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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby bibleman » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:59 am

olindquist wrote:Can a person speak in tongues without being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Bibleman wrote:
No - you can't have the GIFT without the GIVER. The gifts of the Spirit or "of the Spirit" - so no the only way to receive the gifts is to receive the Spirit - of whose gifts they are Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (KJV)

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
I believe so. To me it seems obvious that most persons who speak with either type of tongues are not Spirit baptized (as defined by Dake).
Even people of non-Christian religions speak with tongues (such as some Hindus). Certainly, it's not always of the Holy Ghost.

From these responses and my understanding up to this point it seems there are 3 different types of people which either seem to be or really are being Spirit led in their speaking in tongues. (I"m referring to personal prayer language and not one of the 9 gifts).

1) A non-christian - which is not really from the unction of the Holy Spirit but is rather mental or demonic.
2) A Spirit filled christian who is not baptized in the Holy Spirit. According to Dake there is a difference.
3) A christian who is truly baptized in the Holy Spirit. ( A christian who is not only filled (all christians) but who is totally immersed in the Holy Spirit by constant fellowship and obedience to Him)


On your point 2... I think you should let Roger tell you what he means by there being a "difference according to Dake" on the Holy Spirit Baptism.

Dake had a very strong belief concerning the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. If Dake was correct then I have never met nor have I ever read in the history of mankind, anyone who was baptized in the Holy Spirit, except for Jesus Christ. And I really don't think this could be the case.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

olindquist
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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby olindquist » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:43 pm

Bibleman wrote:

"Dake had a very strong belief concerning the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. If Dake was correct then I have never met nor have I ever read in the history of mankind, anyone who was baptized in the Holy Spirit, except for Jesus Christ. And I really don't think this could be the case."

I like Dake's belief on being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I don't believe it's about always being perfect but rather being quick to repent when we know we are not living in obedience. I believe this was David's heart who was a man after God's own heart and did His will. Acts:13:22

1)As many as our led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14
2)Be filled with the Spirit. Eph. 5:18

I believe as christians if we do this we would see come to pass the promises of John 14:12. God would be unjust to promise something that was not able to be fulfilled. I believe it's not only possible to stay baptized in the Holy Spirit but required.

By the way, I'm preaching to myself first with this response!



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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:53 pm

As I understand Dake's perspective on the Spirit Baptism, I'd have to agree with Leon that very few, if any, have ever truly been baptized with the Spirit according to Dake's definition.

For Dake, the Spirit Baptism was about being clothed with and exercising the full power of God as God. Miracles, signs, wonders, as well as all the other gifts of the Spirit; not just having a prayer language or living right. A Spirit-Baptized person would truly be able to work the works of Christ and greater. Such a person would exceed Moses or Elijah in power and truly be able to work the works of God.



olindquist
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Re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Postby olindquist » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:38 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:As I understand Dake's perspective on the Spirit Baptism, I'd have to agree with Leon that very few, if any, have ever truly been baptized with the Spirit according to Dake's definition.

For Dake, the Spirit Baptism was about being clothed with and exercising the full power of God as God. Miracles, signs, wonders, as well as all the other gifts of the Spirit; not just having a prayer language or living right. A Spirit-Baptized person would truly be able to work the works of Christ and greater. Such a person would exceed Moses or Elijah in power and truly be able to work the works of God.


Few people may be walking in it but it is available and expected!




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